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In episode 506 of the Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb wade deep into one of Luke's most arresting parables — the Parable of the Rich Fool (Luke 12:13–21). What begins as a story about a man with a bumper crop and an ambitious barn-building plan quickly unfolds into a penetrating diagnosis of the human heart. The hosts argue that this parable is not primarily about financial planning or the dangers of wealth per se, but about the fundamental theological posture of the creature before the Creator. Framed by two parallel warnings — against covetousness and against anxiety — the parable exposes what happens when a soul tries to find its ultimate rest in the abundance of earthly things rather than in God himself. Rich in biblical theology, literary analysis, and pastoral application, this episode rewards careful listening.
One of the most illuminating structural observations in this episode is Tony's identification of the literary inclusio surrounding the parable. Before the parable, Christ warns: "Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions" (Luke 12:15). After the parable, he turns to his disciples and says: "Do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on. For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing" (Luke 12:22–23). These are not two separate concerns — they are the same spiritual disease expressed at opposite ends of the economic spectrum. The man who grasps for more and the man who lies awake worrying about having enough are both making the same fundamental error: they are finding, or attempting to find, their life's ultimate security in the material rather than in God.
When the rich man in the parable "reasoned to himself" and then spoke directly to his own soul, Jesus was not simply describing a man thinking through a logistical problem. He was depicting, in vivid and culturally jarring terms, the posture of the natural man before God — a man who, in the moment of his greatest blessing, seals himself off from the Creator entirely. The hosts note that in the ancient world, this kind of internal, autonomous deliberation would have registered as strange, even mad. The man does not consult Scripture, neighbor, elder, or God. He speaks only to himself. This is, as Jesse frames it, "the soliloquy of a completely autonomous man" — the pattern of Adam and Eve in the garden, reasoning about the world as though they were its own final authority. The folly is not that he thought about what to do with his harvest. The folly is that God was nowhere in the deliberation.
The parable's final line — "So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God" — is not merely a moral verdict. It is a gospel invitation. Tony is careful to point out that verse 21 does not condemn the act of storing up treasure in itself; it condemns storing up treasure for oneself and not being rich toward God. The contrast is between two orientations of the whole person. To be rich toward God is not primarily about giving money to the church, though generosity is surely implied. It is about recognizing that in Christ, the believer already possesses the only treasure that cannot corrode, be stolen, or be left behind at death. The soul that has been given Christ has been given everything. The soul that has only its barns has nothing — and one night, God will make that plain.
He speaks to his own soul as though the soul — which is like the very seat of a person's relationship with God — could be satisfied by grain. — Jesse Schwamb
Life does not consist in the abundance of possessions. That's the thesis statement of this parable. So the contrast is: what does life consist in? It consists in richness toward God. — Tony Arsenal
This parable confronts every hearer, regardless of net worth, with a single diagnostic question: where has my soul quietly gone to find its rest? — Jesse Schwamb
Full Transcript
[00:00:57] Welcome to episode [00:01:00] 506 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.
[00:01:04] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony, and this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey, brother.
[00:01:09] Jesse Schwamb: Hey, brother. So on this episode, we're diving right back into the parables. We're gonna be in Luke chapter 12, and it's the parable of the rich fool, which is the story basically of a guy who has a bumper harvest, looks at his overflowing barns, and then thinks, "You know what this situation calls for?
[00:01:28] More barns." Not a single thought given to his neighbors, to worship, to God who sent the rain in the first place, just barns. Bigger, better, badder barns
[00:01:38] Tony Arsenal: Battlestar Galactica. That's a lot of Bs. That's some good alliteration, though.
[00:01:44] Jesse Schwamb: I thought you'd enjoy that. And Jesus has something to say about this. It's for all of us, actually, and it might not be the thing you expect, but we're gonna talk about all that stuff.
[00:01:52] Affirmations and Denials Setup
[00:01:52] Jesse Schwamb: But of course, first, here's what everybody needs to do. Gather your loved ones around, get your hearts and your snacks together, 'cause it's [00:02:00] once again time to set forth in an orderly and confessional manner our considered judgments on the things of this world. It's time for affirmations and denials, that part of our conversation where we either affirm something by saying we like it, we enjoy it, it's great, or in contrast, we deny against something that just isn't so good.
[00:02:18] So Tony, it's time for your doctrinal statements. Are you affirming with something or denying against something on our episode?
[00:02:26] Tony Arsenal: I don't know about a, I don't know about a doctrinal statement, but I'm affirming with something.
[00:02:29] Jesse Schwamb: Okay.
[00:02:29] Tony's Baked Pasta Win
[00:02:29] Tony Arsenal: So you and I have talked before about how much we love the slow cooker meals.
[00:02:33] Yes. And, uh, this isn't a slow cooker meal, uh, affirmation, but it is a food recommendation. Um, I've been making this baked pasta, this baked spaghetti dish, that is just so delicious. And the reason it works really well for our family is first, the kids love it, which is, uh, r- rare these days. We- With a two and a, a two-year-old and a four-and-a-half-year-old, they can be very, very selective about what they eat.
[00:02:57] This is a consistent winner. Um, but also, like, [00:03:00] the amount that the recipe makes will do lunches and leftover dinners for all four of us for several days. So it's a super simple recipe. I'm actually, this might be a Reformed Brotherhood first, but I'm gonna put it in the show notes. I'm gonna put the recipe in the show notes.
[00:03:13] Mm-hmm. And, uh, it's super simple. You just cook up 16 ounces of, you know, pasta. I did, uh, it's calls for spaghetti, but with toddlers it's a little easier if you do something like, um, like elbow noodles or I did bow ties tonight 'cause it was kinda fun and I could be like, "Hey, look, it's bow ties." Uh, it's, it's just some sort of, uh, macaroni product, you know, like a, a spaghetti, angel hair pasta, whatever you wanna use.
[00:03:40] You put in two 24-ounce jars of marinara sauce or a pasta sauce. Uh, it calls for a bunch of spices, but you can also just get a pasta sauce that is already spiced. If you want a pasta sauce that has, like, mushrooms or extra basil or something, like, you can buy, like, a more flavored style of pasta sauce, and that'll add [00:04:00] some, uh, some texture to it.
[00:04:02] You do two pounds of ground beef, which will cost you, like, $1,000 these days- ... but it's, it's worth it. You could replace it with ground turkey if you wanted to do something- Nice ... uh, a little bit less expensive or maybe something a little bit healthier. Um- You put in like two eight-ounce things of sour cream.
[00:04:18] I think it calls- Ooh ... for 12 ounces, but I did, uh, I did 16 ounces today and it was extra creamy. And then just a mess of mozzarella, and you know, a mess of... You, you top it with mozzarella cheese- Nice. Nice ... and, uh, Parmesan. And then you just cover it with foil and bake it for a half hour, and then take the foil off and bake that, uh, for another 15 minutes to make sure that surface cheese is nice and crisp and, like, gooey and perfect.
[00:04:42] Mm-hmm. Uh, and it's just, it's just good. It's getting to be that time of year where things are a little colder. Right. And, uh, we... Our, our home is heated by propane, which is expensive, and this time of year, like, I don't actually wanna turn the furnace on, but cooking a nice meal in the, in the stove just sort of takes the, [00:05:00] takes the, uh, edge out of the air a little bit.
[00:05:02] So every element of it is great. And like I said, I'll, I'll eat this dish for lunch for the next, like, four days and I'll love every bit of it. So I'll put the recipe in the show notes. It's very easy to make. It's very, very good. If you got kids, it's a winner 'cause it's cheesy and gooey and it's fun. Um, and then you put a side of veggies with it, mixed veggies or spinach or whatever you want.
[00:05:25] Uh, and it's just, it's just delicious. It's so, so good, Jesse. I can't even describe how good it is. Um, but it's, it's just really, really delicious. I've made it twice now and, uh, it's just easy. I'm not a very good cook. Your wife is a phenomenal cook, so she's probably able to, like- This is true ... she could probably tweak this recipe and make it, like, a real culinary masterpiece.
[00:05:43] But you don't have to be a great cook to put this together. Right. You just boil the pasta, brown the beef, and then mix it all together and bake it for a little while and it's, it's really, really easy and good.
[00:05:52] Jesse Schwamb: I can at least vouch for how delicious it looks. You sent us a picture and it's exactly what you'd expect.
[00:05:58] Like, it, it's [00:06:00] a big casserole dish of pasta, which I didn't know the recipe, so I can see it's elevated pasta, really. Got some things that- Yeah ... kinda just take it from, like, just out of the box stuff to something that's a little bit more decadent, and that's what you want.
[00:06:12] Cheese Talk and Recipe Tweaks
[00:06:12] Jesse Schwamb: But I was immediately overcome by just the beautiful cascading...
[00:06:17] A- as if covered by covenant itself, this pasta was just smothered- ... in this delici- like, not... A- and I don't wanna say, like, not, not too much cheese, like just the right amount. And I could tell it had been baked so that it was not just melted but got the crispiness. Here's what, this is the reason why I make such a big deal about the picture is because my wife is lactose intolerant, and I've learned you can, you can fall into a kind of version of Romans 1 with lactose intolerance.
[00:06:44] If there's somebody who's a loved one- ... in particular, and by that I mean I, because we haven't had real cheese in a while, I thought, "I don't need real cheese. Like, we can get this fake stuff. It's, it's really good. It's, it's so delicious." And then you see a picture like that and I immediately thought, "I've exchanged the truth for a lie.[00:07:00]
[00:07:00] I want cheese." "I want it so bad."
[00:07:03] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the cheese really is the... I mean, the, the secret to this is the sour cream. Um, I feel like that's really what, what sort of pushes it over the edge. Last time that I made it, the first time I made it, I didn't tell Ashley what was in it. She just knew it was like a baked p- pasta dish, and she was like, "This is so good and creamy, and I...
[00:07:23] It's, like, it's really delicious." Um, the sour cream really kicks it over the edge. If, if anything, I would add a little more cheese than I used tonight. Um, it calls for a cup of cheese, which is a lot of cheese. That's eight ounces of cheese. A lot of cheese. Um, it's four ounces of cheese. Um, but I use a little bit more, and I actually think it could u- it could've used a little more mozzarella and make that inner, like, the in- middle gooey part a even more gooey and cohesive.
[00:07:48] But it's good. It's really... It's a recipe that's hard to screw up. And even if you did it without cheese, if you just added sour cream or, um, even if you didn't do that, you just added something to sort of give it a little bit of an edge. You probably could do it with yogurt if you were [00:08:00] looking to save, uh, do something a little bit more healthy than sour cream.
[00:08:03] Um, and it's one of those dishes, like, you can play with it. You can kinda mess around with it and change it up. Um- I saw one person online who was talking about this recipe who, uh, they, they sprinkled a little bit of cheddar cheese on top of it along with the mozzarella and it gave it a little bit of that sharpness.
[00:08:17] So check it out. I'll post the recipe. It's very easy. Um, it was actually in a list of like easy meal plan. Ashley has this packet of like easy meals for busy moms kind of thing. Uh, and it, it takes a bit of time. This one is not one that you would wanna try to do, you know, after a work night trying to get the kids ready.
[00:08:38] But again, it's one of those ones kind of like the slow cooker stuff we talk about. Like- Right ... once you get it set and you do it, then like you have leftovers for the week and it heats up real well. It reheats really well. Um, probably don't want to eat it cold because of the ground beef. Could, could get a, you know, get some food poisoning kind of stuff going on there, but it microwaves real well.
[00:08:58] Uh, it's very delicious. [00:09:00] You, you know like sometimes when you microwave something, like it's, it dries out. Because this has like the sour cream and the, the marinara sauce, this doesn't really dry out. Um, and it, it stores really well in the refrigerator. You could probably freeze it if you really wanted to.
[00:09:14] Uh, it's just really a versatile, easy to make dish. So I'll post the recipe.
[00:09:18] Telegram Tastings and Oreo Chaos
[00:09:18] Tony Arsenal: Uh, this is one of those things we, we sometimes forget to talk about our Telegram chat until the very end of the episode, which is like the worst possible time to do a call to action- I know ... for a podcast. How dare we? Uh, we actually have a whole channel in our Telegram chat which you can access by going to t.me/reformedbrotherhood.
[00:09:36] We have a whole channel just for tastings, and usually people will do things like hot wing tasting or this time of year sometimes like seasonal Oreos or seasonal candy bars come out or maybe someone gets a new beer or something like that. I would love to see some people make this recipe and do some tastings because maybe I'm overselling it.
[00:09:53] Maybe I just love this and it's only so-so, but, uh, I'd love to see what the rest of the community thinks. So [00:10:00] t.me/reformedbrotherhood, make the baked pasta. Tell me what you think. I think it would be awesome.
[00:10:05] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, there you go. There's all kinds of great things taking place out there, and this is that time of year.
[00:10:09] Oreo won't stop. I mean, this could be our, the whole topic- I know ... of our conversation tonight, so I'm just gonna avoid it for the most part, but somebody needs to stop Oreo. I tried the Chicken and Waffles Oreo, and It was not good. Uh, maybe that should be my denial- No ... but it's not my denial, but it's not great.
[00:10:26] It, well, it's complicated, guys. It's, it's kind of good because it tastes mostly, at least when I ate it... Okay, somebody be the judge. Go, go get some. Grab them from a friend. Do not go buy them yourself unless, like, you think- No ... this is something you're really gonna love. But, uh, and I'm gonna warn you, you probably won't.
[00:10:43] But it, it'll taste delicious 'cause you'll be like, "Oh, this is like maple syrupy, and it tastes waffle-y." And then there was, like, something that happened in the back of my throat that was unnatural. It was like a spiciness or a clinginess or, like, a weird spice that I think was supposed to be an analog for chicken.[00:11:00]
[00:11:00] Instead, all it was making me do was kinda just make this weird, like, phlegm-like sound as I was at work trying to recover quickly in front of people after eating this Oreo that sniped me. So I don't know where I was going with that except, uh, come hang out at the Telegram chat, everybody, because we've got all kinds of fun tastings there.
[00:11:16] Somebody should grab those Oreos. We know you, you got these Oreos out there somewhere, loved ones. Post a little- Yeah ... uh, s- video of, uh, us, or for us, of you trying them
[00:11:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, I find that anything that is trying to emulate a savory flavor that doesn't actually include that savory flavor is usually pretty gross.
[00:11:38] And I think it's- Dangerous ... 'cause it's like, it's not like they're putting real chicken into the Oreos. Oh, please no. It's- Yes ... it's like they just have some sort of chemical that tricks your brain, tries to trick your brain into thinking it tastes like chicken. Which with as many things that taste like chicken as there are, you would think that'd be a pretty easy one to nail, but, uh, I'm not even gonna try the Oreo waffles- It's weird
[00:11:57] or Chicken waffle. It's weird. May- maybe somebody will like it That sounds [00:12:00] disgusting and-
[00:12:01] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. All right, I'll take-
[00:12:04] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, it was actually, it was actually a, a Coke Oreo, uh, uh, partnership that originally spawned our tasting channel, wasn't it? Yes. I think it was like the... I don't remember what flavor it was, but it was like a Dr.
[00:12:17] Pepper flavored Oreo or an Oreo flavored Coke or something like that- Yes ... that was just a, just a total outcome of the fall. It was just disgusting.
[00:12:26] Jesse Schwamb: It is.
[00:12:26] Tony Arsenal: So-
[00:12:26] Jesse Schwamb: Here, so- But ... I don't wanna be too conspiratorial, but I have a theory about this. My theory is that Oreo knows that all they have to do is entice people enough for every person to buy one package of these things, knowing that they may never buy them again, and they'll still make a, a, like bandits.
[00:12:41] And maybe it's even better because everything is more expensive these days. So you can't just go with what's normal. So you've gotta like really say, "Well, I'll just, I'll get this one package of Chicken & Waffles Oreos 'cause I'll never get it again. I'm willing to splurge on it." And the joke's on us, loved ones.
[00:12:55] Like, we're all out here just throwing Oreos into the trash because ... [00:13:00] that tastes so funky. Maybe not. Somebody go tell me if I'm wrong. Somebody s- go out there and say, "Yes. Listen, these, these are the best Oreos I've, I've ever had."
[00:13:11] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, this reminds me back, way back in my, my Reformed pub days, which I don't like to admit how long ago that was 'cause it makes me feel really old.
[00:13:19] But, um, there was a, a long time when, uh, Not Your Father's Root Beer or Not Your Dad's Root Beer, whatever it was, I don't remember what the specific, uh, brand was, but there was a, like a brand of, um, of like alcohol root beer. I think it was like Not Your Father's Root Beer or Not Your Dad's Root Beer or something like that.
[00:13:39] It was
[00:13:39] Jesse Schwamb: horrible.
[00:13:40] Tony Arsenal: And it was so awful that it was actually a trend for a while. Man, this, these were the good old days where people had enough money to do stupid stuff like this. But it was a trend for a while where people would buy it just to film themselves dumping it down the drain. And it's like, it's like, yeah, nobody has money for that anymore, but- Yeah
[00:13:59] uh, some things are [00:14:00] just so terrible that it's almost... I think you might be right. Like, it's so bad that people buy it to just try it to see how bad it is. Yes. And Oreo s- someone has calculated that, like, they can get enough people to buy it just on the reputation of how terrible it is that they'll still turn a profit on this limited edition run, uh, terrible Oreo Fusion thing.
[00:14:23] Um, yeah. Anyway, we could talk about terrible Oreo Fusions- Yeah ... all night, every night, 'cause there's a lot of them and they're gross. But we don't wanna do that, 'cause that's probably not great podcasting. So Jesse, what are you affirming or denying? And I'm gonna be really embarrassed if what you're denying is Oreo Fusion-
[00:14:39] cookies. But, uh, what are you affirming or denying tonight?
[00:14:43] Jesse Schwamb: It's not.
[00:14:44] Jesse's Productivity Book Pick
[00:14:44] Jesse Schwamb: I think you and I are somewhat, we're interested in productivity, are we not? Mm-hmm. We've actually talked about that a great deal on this podcast. And so I'm hesitant to bring this up because there are so many books, there are so many podcasts.
[00:14:56] What more could possibly be said? And so when I came across this book called [00:15:00] Redeeming Your Time by Jordan Rainer with the subtitle Seven Biblical Principles for Being Purposeful, Present, and Wildly Productive, I thought, "Come on. Um, do we really need this book?" And I read it, and I'm really glad that I did.
[00:15:13] And my affirmation is exactly his work here. Because it's a little bit like presuppositional apologetics meets Cal Newport and David Allen. He, in fact, one of the things I love is if you're interested in just being more productive or maybe you don't even know what that is, I do recommend you get this book because he basically has synthesized, and he says this, a lot of that writing into one place.
[00:15:37] He gives you really practical things. But this is by far the most Christian perspective, I would say that the most Reformed perspective I have ever read on productivity, and I took way more from this book than I ever anticipated I would. To that end, just to give a taste, I wanna read just a couple sentences that are part of his introduction.
[00:15:55] This is what Jordan Rainer writes, "Jesus offers you peace before you do anything." [00:16:00] Nearly every time management expert says that the path to peace and productivity is found in implementing his or her system. This is what we might call work space productivity, which claims that if you do exercises X, Y, and Z, then you'll find peace.
[00:16:12] This book begins with the opposite premise in what we might call grace-based productivity, which says that through Jesus Christ, we already have peace, and we do time management exercises of X, Y, and Z as a response to worship. And basically, the whole premise of his book is that the most unproductive thing you can do in life is live it without God.
[00:16:32] So this is missional. It's intensely practical. Like, he's gonna take you through his own strategy, which really he says, and he gives attribution to so many other authors and experts in the field, that he is synthesizing some of their ideas, but he's doing it under the auspice of the gospel. And this is the first book I've ever found that has this type of final chapter.
[00:16:53] There's a whole section on being sure not to make productivity an idol. So this is, like, a really [00:17:00]lovely book. It's incredibly challenging. It's so thoughtful, but it's filled with doxological kind of content that leads me to want to be more productive, not because we have to do productive to, or pr- be productive to, of course, earn anything before God.
[00:17:13] Not even that we should feel guilty if we're not, but out of God's grace, He gives us tools, and this feeds our desire to serve and then do so effectively. And so I think that if you have any interest in what it might look like for you, if you're feeling burned out, tired, distracted from things in life, uh, you really should read this.
[00:17:32] It'll be worth your time. So wherever books are sold, we're not getting, uh, any kind of commission on this. Just go find Redeeming Your Time by Jordan Rainer. And again, go to the Telegram group. Let us know what you think about it.
[00:17:46] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.
[00:17:47] Grace Based Productivity Discussion
[00:17:47] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, you know, I think, um, there was a time period where hustle culture or productivity culture was really, really in for Christians.
[00:17:57] Jesse Schwamb: Right.
[00:17:57] Tony Arsenal: And, um, I, I think even [00:18:00] in secular, secular domains, non-Christian domains where productivity, hustle culture is kind of, um, is a, a focus, even in those circles and even in those circumstances, the literature and the, the people who are doing blogs and, and YouTube channels, even those people are starting to recognize that we did put hustle culture and, like, being, like, hustling, we, we put that on a pedestal and made it, like, the goal- Right
[00:18:31] instead of recognizing, like, the whole point behind, um, behind productivity is it's actually to keep your priorities straight. Right. It's, you know, it's, it's you, you work hard to get things done so that you have time to do the things you wanna do, or so that you are actually able to accomplish the goals you want to accomplish.
[00:18:53] And a lot of people have commented, both in Christian circles and non-Christian circles, that we made getting a lot [00:19:00] of things done... And I, like, I don't wanna blame David Allen for this, but, like, this is the name of his book, right? Getting things done was the goal, not the vehicle to the goal. Right. I don't think David Allen would take that approach.
[00:19:10] I think actually he's, he's much more grounded than a lot of his sorta, like, successors. But the, the, the switch to turn productivity into an end in itself has really just caused people to burn out. Like, you can only hustle for so long before you need a rest. So it's really refreshing to hear that there's a good Christian work out there that's latching onto that and is actually bringing God's truth and the gospel to bear on it.
[00:19:34] That's, that's a book that I, um, I should definitely check out.
[00:19:37] Jesse Schwamb: I highly recommend it. I'm actually going to ... I'm grabbing a copy for a friend of mine who is, I would say, like a nominal Christian. We've had lots of conversations, and he's admitted that he grew up kind of in the Christian faith, has walked away from it, and just, he's one of these guys who knows so much about it, has all the head knowledge, and says things like, "I'll, you know, I'll come back to God eventually."
[00:19:56] And it just so happens, he's big into productivity, and he's always [00:20:00] finding that whatever he's reading is really falling short. And so I'm just gonna get this as a gift for him and just say, "Here you go, man." 'Cause I, 'cause the one thing I can say about this book for anybody who's read a lot of productivity stuff, is this is something unlike you've read before when it comes to productivity.
[00:20:13] Yeah. Because it is so gospel-centered. The first opening, the whole opening gambit is, like, you can't ... How can you be pr- productive if you don't know the, the or- the origin or, like, the father of time himself? And I'm like, wow. Yeah. Okay, here we go. Let's talk about it. And then you'll be halfway through, and he's given you all of this, uh, format, framework, and structure for how to set your calendar, how to modify your time.
[00:20:34] Like, so it's the best of both worlds. You, you get a lot, but what I love is it's very presuppositional. It's like you cannot be productive in life, you cannot find your missional purpose, dist- to understand your calling, and then from there break down your quarterly goals and then your tasks. It's really a lovely way of tying everything back to the gospel, and he goes hard by saying, "Listen, you can, you have a say in directing your calling.
[00:20:57] You do not have a say in your mission. That comes [00:21:00] from God himself, who defines who you are and what it means to be human and what it's like to relate to him." And I found that to be just overwhelmingly refreshing, like you said. So I hope that people will pick this up and read it for themselves, but I could see this being, like, a really lovely introduction to the gospel to many who are just interested in how to tackle life better.
[00:21:20] And the beautiful thing about the, the Bible is it tells us the truth about the way things are. And so, like you and I have talked about before so many times, Tony, like, there's so much common grace that, of course, all these studies are just f- are kind of, are directly connected to this gospel truth of what it means to do good work and to do it as an act of worship before God.
[00:21:38] That's where we find our fulfillment, of course, is in worshiping him, and part of our productivity is that part of worship. So there's a lot of good things to, that could be said there. But I think it's, this has, like, book club written all over it, guys. Get, just get it. Get a bunch of people together. Just book club this bad boy all over the place.
[00:21:57] That's, that's my-
[00:21:58] Tony Arsenal: Yeah ...
[00:21:58] Jesse Schwamb: my full affirmation. [00:22:00]
[00:22:01] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And, and one last thing I'll say in response to that, I love the idea of giving this book to someone almost as, like, an evangelistic tool. Yeah. Because I think there are a lot of people who, um, life is so busy and everybody is trying to get things done that especially people who already kinda operate in productivity circles, productivity mindsets, they're always looking for the next system that can fix the problem.
[00:22:27] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.
[00:22:28] Tony Arsenal: And, like, no system can fix the problem. That's probably part of the point of this book. But, like, everybody's looking for, like, the next system that will give them that, like, 2% efficiency boost or, like, that 5% efficiency boost or whatever it is. And so even though they may never pick up a book that is theological and it's about the gospel, if you give them this book and be like, "This guy's got a really unique perspective on it, man.
[00:22:48] I really think it can help you really, you know, I think he- there's some useful insight for your productivity system"- Right ... they'll read that book. They'll put it in their calendar- Yes, I agree ... they'll time block it out. I agree. And they'll read it, and they'll [00:23:00] read it to completion, 'cause that's how people who operate in these circles tend to be.
[00:23:04] Uh, so you'll get the gospel in there. So I think that's a really great, uh, a really great tool that people could think about using.
[00:23:10] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. It's like their productivity, or it's like the gospel Trojan horse through productivity. But it's, it's the truth. Yeah, yeah. This is the truth. And that's what I loved about it.
[00:23:18] It was unashamed in that this is the way life works, and God is over all, and you've gotta understand these things if, if you wanna be productive. If you wanna know the truth, you've gotta understand the truth. It's gotta be presented to you. And in point of fact, I mean, that's what we're talking about in this whole conversation.
[00:23:35] Luke 12 Rich Fool Reading
[00:23:35] Jesse Schwamb: In fact, everybody- Yeah ... at Love Ones, drop what you're doing, come find us in Luke chapter 12. That's where we are. And we're getting this thing kicked off because Jesus tells this whole parable about a rich fool in response to a man in the crowd demanding that he settle an inheritance dispute. And as Jesus often does, he refuses to be a judge or an arbiter over earthly po- property, and instead he turns this whole thing to warn against [00:24:00]covetousness, the insatiable grasping after more.
[00:24:03] Which, in some ways, is maybe more directly tied into this whole discussion about productivity than I thought. But the parable then follows... It's really not about money management, and that's, you... I've heard this talked about in various ways. Instead, it's about the human heart's naive trust in itself rather than in God.
[00:24:22] So I'm going to read for us a couple verses in Luke chapter 12 to start us off, and I'm gonna start in, I'm gonna say verse 13. And, uh, this is from Luke's gospel. "And someone from the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, tell my brother to divide the family inheritance with me.' But Jesus said to him, 'Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter over you?'
[00:24:45] Then he said to them, 'Watch out and be on your guard against every form of greed. For not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions.' And he told them a parable, saying, 'The land of a rich man was very productive. [00:25:00] And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?'
[00:25:05] Then he said, 'This is what I will do. I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have so many goods laid up for so many years to come. Take your ease. Eat, drink, and be merry."' But God said to him, 'You fool. This very night your soul is required of you.
[00:25:27] And now who will own what you prepared?' So is the one who stores up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God."
[00:25:38] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.
[00:25:39] How to Misread This Parable
[00:25:41] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, this is, um, this is one of those parables, again, maybe we'll put this in the category of parable with quotation marks. Um, this doesn't always even appear on lists of parables because it doesn't necessarily follow the same format, although he calls it a parable in the, the text here itself.
[00:25:58] But in so- some sort [00:26:00] of, like, lists of parables would even say this isn't even in the same category. But, um, this one here is, is another one of those parables that if we, um, w- we talked about this, uh, last week and I think a, a couple, or last time and a couple times before that. The, the parables of Matthew, or in Matthew, the, the parables that Matthew collects of Christ's overall parabolic, you know, figurative speech ministry, almost all of them are very much oriented towards explaining the nature of the Kingdom of God, explaining the nature of, of how the Kingdom of God functions, how the Kingdom of God is currently breaking into the world, how the Kingdom o- of God will definitively and finally break into the world in the, in the eschaton.
[00:26:43] Um, w- we can sometimes fall into a dangerous interpretive error if we assume that because Matthew's parables, which the bulk of the parables are in Matthew, right? Matthew has more parables than the rest of the Gospels, um, especially if you're talking about [00:27:00] unique parables. Um- Luke's parables, as we've seen them so far, at least the ones that don't overlap with Matthew, they're not necessarily oriented towards that same Kingdom of God understanding in the strictest sense.
[00:27:14] So this parable is not, um... I've heard some that, some people who interpret this in light of the same kind of like, "Stay awake you foolish virgins" kind of theology- Right ... that we saw in, in, in Matthew. Um, this parable is not teaching that same message, at least not in the same way, right? Th- And again, this is not a parable about money management necessarily.
[00:27:37] It's not a parable about, um, you know, I think we could fall into error on one side that this is like, "You fool, how dare you ever be concerned about your wealth and your finances and advancing your own wealth?"
[00:27:48] Jesse Schwamb: Right.
[00:27:48] Tony Arsenal: Versus the other side where it's like, uh, you know, people are like, "Well, the foolish part of this is A, B, or C."
[00:27:56] This is really a parable about a lot of other things that we're [00:28:00] gonna unpack. But if we read it as a sort of like eschatological parable, which it sort of feels that way, it feels a little bit like it's a sort of final eschatology or a personal eschatology parable. Uh, again, it's not to say there's not elements that speak to that, but if we read this as like some sort of, um, if you don't give away all your resources, if you don't give away all your money, if you're not thinking in terms of a life of poverty, then you're condemned.
[00:28:23] If we read it in light of that, that's not right. Right. If we read it in light of sort of like wealth planning strategies, which, you know, this is kind of like the financial version of the Daniel diet, like just taking it totally out of its context, we really can sort of run aground on some bad, some bad interpretive strategies.
[00:28:41] Jesse Schwamb: I'm with you on that.
[00:28:42] First Observations and Themes
[00:28:42] Jesse Schwamb: All those alternatives seem to really denigrate it, don't they? They cheapen what's here because it's not about what's on the face, and I think that's why it's worth talking about, because there's so much underneath. Which we always say, but I think it becomes more and more plain the more we really try to understand what's at stake, what the commentary is really being produced.
[00:29:00] And this, I think, is maybe Jesus could have taken any number of situations or circumstances. He just happens to use this one of property in particular, especially 'cause he was given the entry point, to emphasize something about the sovereignty and responsibility of God, but also our relationship towards him.
[00:29:17] I suppose what it means, of course, to be rich in God, which is the pun sign. What I notice like immediately in this is that Luke tells us something like before the man even ever speaks, and that is like the whole point of his wealth, everything he has, is because the ground produced- Like the increase is not attributed to this guy's skill or his labor or even his shrewdness.
[00:29:39] And like you said, Tony, we've, we've been in other parables where there's been a lot more commentary about the characters involved, that's been a part of this. All of that- Yeah ... is, is just given.
[00:29:46] Providence And Ingratitude
[00:29:46] Jesse Schwamb: Like everything he has is just gi- literally given to him. It's given in the t- passage, it's given to him in this circumstance.
[00:29:52] And there is like, I think, a doctrine, even from the start here, I'm seeing like this flavor of like this doctrine of providence like in miniature. Like [00:30:00] every harvest, every dividend, every windfall is, in the biblical worldview, the fruit of God's sustaining and governing hand. And so I love that like that's how I think Jesus opens this up.
[00:30:10] And so we're gonna see like the tragedy of the parable is that the man who receives this gift will never once acknowledge the giver. And there's all of this ingratitude, which I think often is like the root beneath every sin. And in this story we see the man enjoys God's bounty while essentially erasing God from the picture entirely, and that's how we start
[00:30:32] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.
[00:30:32] Parable Framed By Warnings
[00:30:32] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and there's this other... A- and, um, maybe to, not to bury the lead and maybe, I don't know, maybe this is a spoiler warning for the rest of our episode, but it's, if you read this parable, um, you know, what, what do we always say when a, when a passage is a little bit confusing or it's unclear? Read a little bit more, right?
[00:30:48] Read a little in front, read a little after, and it usually is pretty clear what's getting said here. So when we look at in front of this, Christ tells you what the point of this parable is. Like, He's using this [00:31:00] parable to explain a previous statement, and that statement is, "Take care and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."
[00:31:10] Right? Right. So the parable explains that statement in parable form. And if we read just a little bit after, and I'm sure we'll, we'll get to it more in depth, but He says to His disciples in verse 22, "And He said to His disciples, 'Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, and what you will put on.
[00:31:29] For life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing.'" Right? So those two statements, right? Life does not consist in the abundance of possession, in the front, and life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. Those are parallel statements. And usually we look at, this is a, a literary technique called an inclusio, right?
[00:31:49] What an inclusio is, is you have a statement at the beginning of a passage or a beginning of a text, and then a similar or sometimes identical or parallel statement after the text [00:32:00] that sort of shows you, it's almost like a chapter break, right? Sometimes, um, that's used to show you where the chapter is.
[00:32:07] Sometimes it actually helps us to clarify these statements by recognizing them as inclusios. We see that the pre- the statement before the parable and the statement after the parable are essentially the same statement because they're being used to form this inclusio. Uh-huh. So the fact that we need to be aware, be on guard against covetousness, and the fact that we should not be anxious about our possessions, about our life, about our material things, the not being anxious and the be- being aware of covetousness, those are the same thing.
[00:32:36] Or they're s- they're largely similar, largely substantially the same things. Which we did an episode when we were going through our, like, five-year-long systematic theology, um, series. Um, we did a s- we did a, a handful of episodes on, um, on the Ten Commandments, and so I would encourage you to go back and listen to the episode on covetousness because we covered all this, [00:33:00] right?
[00:33:00] Whether it's being anxious in terms of, um, being insecure in your material wealth, being insecure in what God has provided for you and not being thankful, you know, kind of almost resenting God because of your lack, that's a form of covetousness. Or whether- Right ... covetousness is taking more of a traditional format of wanting something that someone else has.
[00:33:20] Um, both of those things represent a violation of the ninth commandment. And so this parable here is... And I think this will get to where you're, where you've been sort of leading us. This parable here is designed to help his listeners, and primarily hi- like, this guy, right? He's trying to teach this guy, but also he turns to his disciples after this and launches into another section and a further explanation of this concept.
[00:33:47] It's here to help us understand not just, you know, the fact that, like, my material we- my material, uh, wealth doesn't really help me after I die. Like, yeah, you can't take it with you. Okay, [00:34:00] maybe that's part of this. Right. Maybe it's kind of the, you know, 1 Corinthians 6, "Don't build on s- don't build out of straw," you know, like, things are gonna burn away, just what you build on a s- on foundation will stay.
[00:34:11] Not Wealth But Trust
[00:34:11] Tony Arsenal: But more so this is about understanding satisfaction and contentment in whatever it is that God has blessed us with, right? That's right. So this is not a con- condemnation of those who are wealthy. This guy's not condemned because he had a bumper crop and because he's wealthy. Right. He's not even condemned explicitly because he's trying to plan for the future, right?
[00:34:30] There's lots of things, to kind of go to the productivity thing. There's nothing wrong with planning for the future. Right. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I had a really good harvest year, and I'm gonna need bigger barns to store all this stuff, to, like, keep all this stuff." It's, it's as I think you're leading us to, it's this seemingly total unawareness that the, the bumper crop comes with certain kinds of, like, obligations and entailments- Right
[00:34:56] beyond just I'm gonna celebrate and enjoy my [00:35:00] own wealth for wealth's sake.
[00:35:02] Jesse Schwamb: Right. It's what all of this circumstance reveals about this man, his heart, where he finds his assurance and confidence. So I like where we're going with this. So you're right, if you look at the passage immediately preceding and subsequent, what you'll find is that beautiful...
[00:35:16] Well, this is an Oreo sandwich. Unfortunately, we're back to where we started, because we've got- ... w- one cookie is the warning, avoid covetousness. The other cookie is the don't be worried, and the cream in the filling here is assurance or confidence. That is, like, where does our true wealth lie? But more and bey- beyond that, like, where can we hang our hats, so to speak?
[00:35:36] Like, what is it that we can be confident that we, we can rest secured in?
[00:35:41] Autonomous Inner Counsel
[00:35:41] Jesse Schwamb: And so we get some of the betrayal of the fact that this man is looking at the wrong things, even from that first verse. And then by the time, like, this interesting, this whole internal mon- monologue begins, I think again, like, it's, it's telling to me that he deliberates, like, entirely by himself.
[00:35:56] And I think, like, this is kind of this interesting posture of the [00:36:00] natural man that is described in Romans, like, 1, where there's, like, kind of functional, practical atheism. You know? He doesn't ask, like you were saying, Tony, like, "What does the Lord require of me with this abundance?" He doesn't consult scripture, neighbor, or God.
[00:36:13] He consults only himself. Which honestly I think is a temptation for us all. Like, that can be our defa- default mode in situations similar to this, where we first start to reason among and with ourselves. And this is, like, the soliloquy of a completely autonomous man who thinks he has his own agency. It's like the very pattern of Adam and Eve in the garden reasoning about the world as though they were its final authority.
[00:36:37] So here, you're right. We're, we're getting set up with it's not the circumstances that condemn this man. It's essentially how he behaves, where he puts his trust within those circumstances.
[00:36:48] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.
[00:36:49] Soul Talk As Insanity
[00:36:49] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and, you know, I've, I've heard, um, and I, I have not validated this myself, so take it with a little bit of a grain of salt.
[00:36:56] But there's, there's something, um... I've heard it from [00:37:00] multiple sources, multiple reliable resources that I trust, that this sort of phrase in the middle where it's like he says to his soul or he says to- Yes ... himself, there's something about that that is sort of almost like a form... Uh, I've heard it said, like, that would've been f- viewed as, like, a form of insanity- Mm
[00:37:18] in the ancient world. And we've commented this, on this before. Like, um- A large portion of the population doesn't have an internal monologue. And I think, um, i- if I remember right, it's actually, like, a larger portion, it's like a majority portion of the world doesn't have an internal monologue. And what that means is...
[00:37:39] A- and hopefully there's some people in our audience that are like, "Oh, yeah, I don't, I, I don't even know what you're talking about when you say an internal monologue." And it's hard for people who are in one side of this to even conceptualize what it would be like to be on the other side of this. But there are people who, um, when they think, they're essentially speaking to themselves.
[00:37:59] And then there's people [00:38:00] who, when they think, a- and I, again, I don't even know how to describe this, they don't have an internal monologue. They're not, they're not speaking to themselves in their minds I think, um, probably part of the reason that this was so, is, was seen as so crazy in the ancient world is in the ancient world, uh, the...
[00:38:18] I'm getting really far afield here. I'll try to bring it back. Um, in the ancient world, because people didn't read as much, they don't have that internal monologue. The prominence of people being able to read, and especially being able to read to themselves, which is something that even as early as 100, 200 years ago just wasn't common to be able to read to yourself.
[00:38:37] If you wanted to read, you would have to read out loud. To be able to just read in your mind, because when we read in our mind, we're speaking words to ourselves, I think our, our, um, culture has trained itself where more, more and more people have this internal monologue. But in the ancient world, this idea that someone would say to themselves or, like, speak to their own selves or sort of [00:39:00] ponder this internally was, has...
[00:39:03] Like I said, I haven't validated this independently. I haven't done the research myself, but enough resources that I've read that I trust to have done that have said this. That was itself seen as a little bit of a, of a anomaly and sort of almost a form of insanity. Right. And so I think we've commented that a lot of times the parables have this point in them or this turning point where somebody does something that is sorta crazy.
[00:39:29] Like, it's a little bit- Right ... out there, right? You think of the parable of the prodigal son, prodigal father, whatever, however you wanna call it. The idea that, like, the father sort of debases himself and runs out to greet the son, or even the fact that, like, when this, when this selfish son asks for his inheritance, that his father just gave it to him before he died, that is uncharacteristic and would've been seen as a little bit weird or a lot a bit weird.
[00:39:55] This idea that this guy stops to sort of self-reflect [00:40:00] by himself entirely internally, right? The little- Right ... literal Greek, and so some translations say this, "So I said to my soul." Even- Right ... um, even that language of, um, almost having to externalize your internal thoughts. He's not... It doesn't say, "So he thought about it himself."
[00:40:21] He had to say to his soul. He had to speak to himself. Even the language shows you that the Greek language doesn't have good construction to even be able to articulate what it would be like to think to yourself or to just mull it over internally. That is a strange function here, and it gets at what you've been saying.
[00:40:41] He doesn't pause to pray about it. He doesn't pause to go to the gates of the city and speak with the elders. He doesn't connect with his wife. He doesn't ask anybody. He doesn't consult anybody. He does this sort of insane thing that even the Greek language doesn't have words for and has to sort of create this new [00:41:00] construction.
[00:41:00] Right. He just stops. He thinks to himself. He speaks to his own soul. And, and then it, like, sort of paints this picture of him saying it out loud. "I said to my soul, 'Soul-
[00:41:10] Jesse Schwamb: Right. ...
[00:41:11] Tony Arsenal: what should I do?'" Like, it's, it's this sort of, like, weird sort of- Weird ... insane, strange feature that we don't pause to think about because we have this internal monologue.
[00:41:21] We have this internal dialogue with ourselves, and so we don't think that that's unusual. But that's actually probably one of the main points of the parable is there is this strange feature where this guy doesn't pause to consult with anyone or anything about what he should do with this bumper crop.
[00:41:39] He just Acts on his own behalf, thinks through his own behalf. And that should be the key to us that like, hmm, we really should think about what is the point here.
[00:41:49] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. You, you stole what I was gonna say. The soul thing is the super weird thing. I'm glad you already brought it up because when I read this, you can get through most of it and say, "Okay, that's interesting.
[00:41:58] Interesting story." And then you get to him [00:42:00] being like, "Hey, soul." And you're like, "Say what?" Yeah. Like, "Who are you talking to? Why are you talking that way? Why are you being so weird about this?"
[00:42:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.
[00:42:06] My Barns My Goods
[00:42:06] Jesse Schwamb: So, like, there's the ju- the just sheer, like, selfishness, and then there's this... It gets escalated, elevated to this, like, soul self-talk, which is super weird, and deliberate, I think, in Jesus' telling of this.
[00:42:18] So, like, you're right. You got this repetition of all these, in Greek, like, first person pronouns: my crops, my barns, my grain, my goods. I just counted here five times in three verses we've got either I or my. So it's not simply, like, poor stewardship. It's the theological posture of self-ownership. It's like t- complete denial of the creature's fundamental dependence on the creator.
[00:42:38] And then, as if that's not enough, you get this whole verse 19, "Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years. Relax, eat, drink, and be merry." And you wanna say, "Who are you talking to, man?" So, like, here I think this folly reaches a full and fatal expression to me because he speaks to his own, his own soul as though the soul, which is like the [00:43:00] very seat of a person's relationship with God, could be satisfied by grain.
[00:43:05] And so I think this is, like, the fundamental conclusion that Reformers labored to expose. It's really like mistaking the gifts of common grace for the substance of ultimate security. He's trying to create this cookie with all this cream in the middle, but he has nothing there. There's, there's nothing to fill it.
[00:43:20] It's like, it's like Augustine's dictum stands over this entire verse like a judgment. The heart is restless until it finds rest in God. And guess what? No barn, however large, can hold whatever only God can give. And so, like, the man's error is not that he planned for the future, like we've been saying.
[00:43:36] Scripture commends some prudence. But that he planned as though there were no God to whom he must give account and no eternity beyond the granary, and then beyond that, he takes responsibility for his own soul and tries to self-soothe that soul. My word, I could barely say that. He tries to soothe his own soul in a way to give it confidence merely by the things he owns, separating himself from the [00:44:00] creator, the one who has given him all these things.
[00:44:02] It is, I think, Tony, like you said, absolute insanity. It's certainly like insanity raised up against the spiritual man, and yet to the natural man, this seems like... Even in our modern day, in a contemporary context, this seems like the reasonable thing to do, the reasonable thing, to take charge of yourself and to be happy with yourself and to be content with what you provided and to have security in that, and yet this is the great- greatest kind of foolishness that possibly there ever is.
[00:44:28] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.
[00:44:30] Enjoy Gifts Not Idols
[00:44:30] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and I think too, um, you know, the, this, um This is sometimes taught as though, like we've alluded to and said a couple times, it's taught as though the act of saving or, like, investing or even in this case, like, sort of taking a strange risk to try to propel your wealth forward, this is sometimes taught as though the point of this is that you shouldn't do those things.
[00:44:56] Right. Like, the act of saving your wealth is [00:45:00] somehow... Like, saving things up or investing or taking a risk is somehow contrary to biblical wisdom and biblical prudence, and I don't, I don't think that's at all the point of the parable, right? And we've, we've pointed out that this parable is sandwiched or Oreo cookied by, you know, beware of covetousness, life does not exist in your possessions, or the satisfaction of life does not exist in your possessions, and then do not be anxious, life is more than food, the body more than clothing.
[00:45:28] And the, the, the key phrase here in terms of where this guy's mistake is, not only is the mistake in the idea that, like, he's not c- thinking about what should I do with this in reference to my neighbor or what should I do with this in reference to God. There seems to be no consideration of that at all.
[00:45:44] But what he intends to do with it in relation to those statements is entirely self-focused. And it's not, it's not the case at all. Please don't hear me saying it's not okay to enjoy the [00:46:00] fruit of your labor, right? There's all sorts of things in the Bible, lots of teaching in the Bible, um, about the fact that when we work hard and we reap a financial benefit, whether it's in, in this sort of like ancient culture, it's a, you know, a concrete financial benefit, or whether it's in our more modern culture where, like, we just, we gather more money which is sort of like a, I don't know, it's like a social contract of m- evaluating our labor.
[00:46:25] Whatever it is, w- it's okay to use your wealth in ways that drives satisfaction. It's okay to enjoy wealth. Like, go buy a nice steak. Go get a nice bottle of wine. Take your wife out for dinner. Go on vac- Like, those things are fine. Buy a nice car. Go on vacation. Those things are fine, provided you're not finding your enjoyment and your satisfaction and, and ultimately that you are not doing those things as the final end of existence.
[00:46:53] Right. Right? The, the point that he's making to this young man who says, "Tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me," [00:47:00] is, like, you are finding or trying to find your life's ultimate satisfaction in your wealth or in this, like in the wealth that you think you deserve. The flip side of the disciples is, like, your entire life seems to be driven by the fact that you feel like you don't have enough food or you don't have the right clothing.
[00:47:21] So the idea that, like, our satisfaction or our security is found in the abundance of our possessions, that is what this parable is railing against Right With a little bit of, I think a little bit of a gospel call here, right? Yeah. There's, there's this element, and this is, maybe this is unique. I don't, I don't, I can't think off the top of my head another parable where God himself is actually in the parable.
[00:47:49] I think this is somewhat unique, if not entirely unique- Right ... where God himself now is in the parable saying, "Fool, this night your soul is required of you, and the things you've [00:48:00] prepared, whose will they be?" So this idea that on the one side, those who have abundance are warned against finding their sat- their ultimate satisfaction in the abundance of their possessions, and on the flip side, those who lack abundance are warned against, uh, an utter sense of insecurity in the lack of their abundance.
[00:48:22] Jesse Schwamb: Right.
[00:48:23] Tony Arsenal: In the middle there is this chastisement for both of those groups, basically saying your life and your satisfaction and security should be found in the fact that you belong to God and that God is your God. I think that's probably the ultimate payout of this parable, is this idea that like, yeah, whether you have a lot, whether you have a little, whether you have enough, whether you don't have enough, whether you are able to be sort of like enjoying luxury items versus just scraping by or not even scraping by, those [00:49:00] are two realities, and there are Christians who exist in both of those realities.
[00:49:04] And some people might push back on this a little bit, but those realities are, are neutral morally, right? You can be rich and, uh, and still be a faithful Christian. You can be poor and still be a faithful Christian. I guess we can probably have some conversation at some point about which of those states it's easier to be a faithful Christian in.
[00:49:25] But the fact is, like, you can be in either of those states and still be a faithful follower of God.
[00:49:30] Jesse Schwamb: Right.
[00:49:31] Tony Arsenal: As long as you're not finding your satisfaction or being overwhelmed by insecurity in either of those states, I think, uh, I think you, you, you, you can do both of them. And it's actually funny because...
[00:49:44] Maybe not funny. It's interesting. Um, it's also possible to be satisfied in the lack of your possessions, if I can even put it that way, right? There are those who have sort of like placed their security and their ultimate satisfaction in sort of [00:50:00] their poverty or their minimalism, and there are those who are, like, anxious about the fact that they're wealthy.
[00:50:06] This parable speaks to all of those things on every level saying, "No, no, no, no, no," like, your relationship to your possessions is not the point. Right. The point is your relation to God and whether you are his children and whether he is your God.
[00:50:21] Jesse Schwamb: Right.
[00:50:21] God Interrupts The Fool
[00:50:21] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, there's multi-factor foolishness at play here for sure.
[00:50:24] It starts with this idea that he's not crediting, he's not giving attribution, he doesn't understand that he's actually a contingent being and that God provides all these things. Then, like we said, there's this elevation, like you've just talked about, where it moves. That would be- Really foolish enough.
[00:50:41] But what's even more foolish is to say to one's own soul, "You know what? Sit back, chill, be confident because you've done all the things. You have all the right stuff. You don't need to worry about anything." Almost implying, like, you can live forever. Just hang out. You have everything that you need, and you did it all yourself.
[00:50:58] And so in verse 20, where God [00:51:00] interrupts and speaks to him directly, is amazing because He goes right into, first of all, right into the man's private counsel. So it's a good reminder that no soliloquy is ever truly private. We have the judge of all the earth. He hears every deliberation of the heart, and then He addresses him by this word fool, which, of course, you and I have talked about.
[00:51:18] Like, in the Bibl- vocabulary, it's not just, like, an insult about intelligence. It's the term reserved in wisdom literature for the one who says in his heart, "There is no God," either practically if not formally. And so biblical theology has always insisted that human beings are not autonomous. We hold our very breath at God's pleasure, and death comes not by accident or mere biology, but it is by appointment.
[00:51:43] God does all of this stuff. So by the time I, I think you're right, we get to the end of this, and Jesus says, "Listen, this is how it's gonna be for anyone who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God." Can I just say, like, where my mind immediately goes, and I think this is foundational. This is one of the many [00:52:00] things that shows that Jesus is Son of God because He understands us completely as we are, and He both diagnoses the problem and gives us the remedy.
[00:52:08] And so when He's teaching elsewhere in the Beatitudes, in the Sermon on the Mount, He says, "Listen, store up for yourselves not treasures where moth and rust can destroy or thieves can break in and steal, but treasures in heaven." I find this so instructive because notice what He, He doesn't say is, "Don't store up treasures.
[00:52:25] These treasures that you keep going after, that are destroyed by moth and rust and that thieves are likely to break in and steal and bring you anxiety. Your problem is you keep going back to treasure. Stop it with the treasures." No, He just says, "Get the right treasures." In other words, He understands, and we've been created to go after things of great value.
[00:52:42] The problem is we go after those things of great value, and then we stock ourselves, and to some degree, our, even the reliance of our souls into those things, and when they are destroyed, so are we also along with them.
[00:52:54] Rich Toward God
[00:52:54] Jesse Schwamb: And so the contrast isn't between wealth and poverty, but it's between two objects of trust.
[00:52:58] It's treasure for [00:53:00] oneself and the riches toward God. To be rich toward God is to hold earthly goods, I think, like you're saying, with an open hand, which means we may be wealthy and hold them with an open hand. We may be relatively poor and hold the same things that we have with an open hand. And in light of eternity, we wanna use them in love toward our God and neighbor rather than hoarding them as some kind of substitute savior.
[00:53:18] And that's what I think happened here is the savior was replaced by all of these things And so I think you're ultimately right, Tony. Like, this verse I really believe anticipates that whole logic of the gospel, that true riches are not accumulated by human effort, but received. Ultimately, the treasure that endures is Christ himself, in whom all are hidden, all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, freely given to those who trust, not in their own barns of course, but in his completed and finished work, which is far better, and ultimately the only thing upon which we can rely.
[00:53:53] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, and, and I won't belabor the point too much, but I, I think, um, a h- a helpful [00:54:00] corrective, um, and I'm not sure necessarily who this is a corrective for, but this has come up in my own, um... You know, I, I provide pulpit supply for a couple local churches, um, in the area once in a while, and I've... One of the churches that I'm at sometimes has had me teach out of Ecclesiastes and then also out of James chapter five, and there's a lot of parallel theology there, and it runs real parallel to this, right?
[00:54:24] James, James has, um, almost... It's almost a parable, right? I don't know exactly where the chapter is, but there's almost a parable where he talks about these people who say to themselves, right? They sort of- Yes ... think to themselves, "I'll go to this city," or, "I'll go to that city and I'll do business." And in that instance, he's chastising them for kind of laying claim to God's providence or not, not considering the fact, not thinking about the fact that ultimately it's God who determines which city a person goes to, whether they do business or not, right?
[00:54:55] So he's, in that context, he's kind of chastising them for sort of setting themselves up [00:55:00] as their own sovereigns. But you get to chapter five, and there's this, there's this railing against the wealthy who have refused to use their wealth, right? There's the wealthy who have, and it's the same wealthy, but there's the wealthy who have taken advantage of the poor- But another thing that he chastises those wealthy people over is the fact that their riches are sitting in the stockpile for so long that their gold corrodes.
[00:55:26] And it's a really stark picture because gold is, in part, used as a measurement of value because it doesn't corrode in, in normal timescales, right? So silver, as durable as it was, it corrodes, and so it, it was a lesser valuable metal. So the, this vivid imagery of their gold sitting in a store pile for so long that it, it sort of corrodes is pointing towards the eschatological judgment of the corrosion of all corrupt things.
[00:55:55] You flip over to Ecclesiastes, there's a very similar kind of teaching. I don't remember the [00:56:00] exact chapter. But there's a similar teaching where it's basically talking about how, like, wealth is there for us to use, right? Wealth is there for us to use to our own enjoyment, to the benefit of our neighbor.
[00:56:13] It's there for all sorts of reasons. The idea that you would just sit on it is in James and in Ecclesiastes, and here in Christ's teaching, the idea that you would just sit on it and not do anything with it is, again, this form of insanity. And the, the person here is, um He's resting on the stockpile or the store pile of his own wealth in a way that is unhealthy, right?
[00:56:40] Right. It's not that the, the idea of using it for, uh, eating and drinking and be merry. There's nothing wrong with eating and drinking and being merry. The idea that this person believes that is the ultimate end of their goods, and that they're willing to just sort of put it in a store pile as [00:57:00] they spend it that way, that is what the parable is getting at here.
[00:57:03] And this is, this is ... I like that you contrasted this. Verse 21 does not say, "So the one ... So is the one who lays up treasure for himself," full stop. It says, "So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God."
[00:57:19] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.
[00:57:20] Tony Arsenal: Right? This is a condemnation of people who put their trust in wealth, whether it's putting their trust in wealth because they have it, or putting their trust in wealth because they don't have it, and so their entire goal is focused towards getting it.
[00:57:36] Rather than those two, those two ends, or those two, uh, poles of the spectrum, what Christ is pointing at here is that our life should be oriented towards relying on and trusting on, uh, trusting in God. For those who are rich, I th- And I, I guess I'm not speaking out of ... I, I ... In terms of the broader global [00:58:00] economy, I, I'm fabulously wealthy.
[00:58:02] In terms of Western American culture, I'm not particularly wealthy, right? Um, so I don't have a lot of experience with, like, ultra wealth of just, like, money's not something I have to worry about. Um, the idea though is that for those who have wealth, they need to use it correctly. But even those people, using it correctly is
[00:58:24] And this goes back to your productivity book of, you know, um, affirmation. You can't possibly use wealth correctly if you don't know God. Mm-hmm. 'Cause no matter what you do, you're using it- That's right ... towards the wrong end. Yep. And you can't possibly have a right perspective on wealth, even if you're poor, if you don't know God.
[00:58:42] Because our life is not ... This is, this is the punchline of the parable. It's delivered before he even gets to the parable itself. Our life does not consist in the abundance of possessions. Life does not consist in the abundance of possessions. That's the thesis statement of this parable. [00:59:00] So the contrast is what does life consist in?
[00:59:03] It consists in richness towards God.
[00:59:06] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.
[00:59:06] Tony Arsenal: So this is where we need to get, loved ones, is we need to recognize that whether we have a lot or we have a little, we need to be rich towards God. And I think the phrase toward God- Uh, probably is a little bit of a quirk in the Greek. I haven't studied it too much, but, like, we think of that...
[00:59:23] I think I, I've heard of this as, like, generosity to the church or, like, somehow using your wealth towards kingdom, kingdom ends. There's probably an element to that. Like, if you have wealth and you're not advancing, using it in some sense to advance the gospel, that's probably not an appropriate use of your wealth, if that's not part of your, part of your portfolio, I guess you might say.
[00:59:44] But that's not the point of being rich towards God. The point of being rich towards God is more like recognizing that you are rich in God because of who Christ Jesus is. That's
[00:59:53] Jesse Schwamb: right. Yeah. That's right.
[00:59:55] Final Exhortation And Support
[00:59:55] Jesse Schwamb: So what have we learned on this, uh, episode, loved ones? Well, we've learned that, as usual, the Reformed Brotherhood Podcast strikes again.
[01:00:03] It's food for the soul, and it's food for your body. So Tony's gonna post out an excellent baked spaghetti recipe, and we know you're gonna enjoy that. While you're eating that, you might consider this: that this parable confronts, like, every hearer, regardless of net worth, with, I think, a single diagnostic question, which is, where has my soul quietly gone to find its rest?
[01:00:25] And the rich fool's sin was not his harvest but his heart. It was a heart that learned to speak comfort to itself, which is weird, apart from God, which it cannot do. And so we will not let this text be domesticated into some kind of financial advice. Instead, it's a summons to examine whether we are building barns, literal or metaphorical, careers, retirement accounts, reputations, achievements, crypto balances, whatever it is, as functional saviors, or whether we hold every gift as stewards who will one day give account to the Savior, to the one who is our confidence, is our assurance, and [01:01:00] should be our every treasure
[01:01:03] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.
[01:01:04] Yeah, that's a good, good way for us to wrap this out. So loved ones, I'm so excited to continue this parable series. I know I keep saying we're kinda coming up to the end, and it's gonna come up faster than we, faster than you think. Maybe. Um, but it, it is really just been a, a balm to my soul to be driven into the scriptures.
[01:01:24] Um, not that reading systematic theology or historical theology is not good and beneficial and fruitful, but it has been so good for me to just ponder the scriptures. Sort of like on the surface of it, not, not to derive systematic theology or to think about polemics or whatever, but just to think about the scripture for the scripture's sake and what it has to say to me as a Christian trying to live life that honors and pleases the Lord.
[01:01:52] So we're excited to continue this parable series. We're really, really satisfied in Christ that He's brought us through [01:02:00] to just read and love the scriptures. So if you, uh, have been, uh, blessed by this series or by the podcast, I would ask that you would consider, uh, heading over to patreon.com. Patreon is the primary place that people who wanna support the podcast financially, um, that's the primary place that people do it.
[01:02:18] So if you wanna do that, please consider going over to patreon.com. It's patreon.com/reformedbrotherhood. Uh, whether you give a dollar a month or whether you give more, um, we appreciate everybody who supports the podcast financially. We appreciate everyone who supports the podcast by listening or by praying for us.
[01:02:35] Yeah. But the podcast does have expenses, and expenses are increasing. So if you have a little bit extra left over, you've fulfilled all your personal obligations, your obligations to your local church, uh, and you are looking for somewhere to bless other people with your finances, we would love for you to consider, uh, supporting the show that way.
[01:02:53] So you go to patreon.com/reformedbrotherhood. I, I know some people have commented in the past that they, [01:03:00] uh, they're concerned about Patreon because it sometimes is, like, a per episode model. Patreon is actually moving to exclusively a monthly, uh, a monthly cost structure. So we've always been on the monthly cost structure, like we've never done the per episode model.
[01:03:16] But if that's something you're concerned about, maybe they're gonna change it, it's gonna change my giving structure, you don't have to be concerned about that. It's, it's entirely based on a monthly subscription model now. So if you have a little bit you'd like to support us by giving even just a dollar a month, that certainly helps our costs in a pretty significant way.
[01:03:33] Jesse Schwamb: That's right. We were a monthly scr- subscription before it was cool. Back then it was
[01:03:37] Tony Arsenal: mandatory. We're always
[01:03:38] Jesse Schwamb: trendy. That's what people say about us. All right. Well, uh, we'll take a page out of James, I think, and probably do this the right way in our consideration of what's next ahead, and that is if the Lord wills, and He tarries, we'll see you next week.
[01:03:49] So you can come back for more, but until then, here's what you should do. Honor everyone.
[01:03:55] Tony Arsenal: Love the brotherhood. [01:04:00]