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Tony and Jesse see Jesus in today's text, as they continue through the book of Micah.

Jesse Schwamb 0:02
Welcome to Episode 161 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.

Tony Arsenal 0:15
And I'm Tony.

Jesse, are you there?

Jesse Schwamb 0:31
Hey, brother.

Tony Arsenal 0:32
Hey, brother. How you doing?

Jesse Schwamb 0:34
I'm well, did you hear the crickets or was that just me?

Tony Arsenal 0:37
I think the crickets were real. We have some sad news, but it's it's in God's providence that the Society of reform podcasters has, possibly just for the time being but maybe permanently decided to shut down shop.

Jesse Schwamb 0:54
Oh, no.

Tony Arsenal 0:55
Yeah. So what's it been like two years now. Probably almost two years, I think so we had this little experiment going called the Society of reform podcasters. And the idea behind the Society of reform podcasters was a group of like minded podcasters, who helped to reform theology kind of broadly defined, would help each other with their podcasts. And one of the things about podcasting that is really common is this phenomenon called pod fading, where basically like podcasting takes a lot more time than people think. So I think most of the time people think like, Oh, yeah, you record for like, an hour a week. And then like, that's it. But there's, there's editing depending on how much editing you do, like we do very little editing, and it still takes me probably a half an hour to 45 minutes to get the episode ready. You have to post the episode, you have to share it on social media, there's all these different things that have to happen. And so a lot of the shows on the Society of reform podcasters for whatever reason, have pod faded and, you know, most of the time, it's people making good decisions about priorities in their life. Right. So Conrad has a lot going on with a lot of different stuff. You know, Carrie Gephardt has a lot of stuff going on drew Mary and Dale from, according to Christ, two themes, like there's just other stuff going on in life. And as Christian men, particularly, most of these guys who have had a conflict between ministry like real life ministry and their families, and then podcasting have made the right choice to like shut down their podcasts. So the result of that is that the society reform podcasts are for the most part has become like two or three shows that are not always even publishing regularly. So I'm making the decision along with Jesse and I talked with Kerry and Conrad about this, to prioritize some other stuff in my life, besides keeping the Society for for podcasters going.

Jesse Schwamb 2:51
So I'm thankful for all the work that you've invested in that and I see this hopefully as maybe a temporary hiatus as other people kind of sort out what's going on. Their worlds and as God calls us back to different parts of ministry, what you say is really right on like now ever since, like we've done the podcast, when I listened to podcasts, and I hear one that's just like really exceptional. Editing is really good. There's music, there's content, there's stuff going through. I think man that took somebody a lot of time, and thoughtfulness and a lot of resources. Yeah, just to put together. So just by way of example, so the other podcast one of the ones that was on that the fast God stuff podcast, is like we put together episodes were able to do that. But because that one has like music and some other things, it takes a crazy amount of time. Yeah, just by way of example, we Conrad and I sat down and we spent three hours just yesterday recording for a podcast that will only be 30 minutes by definition. So it just takes time because you're working through stuff. So there is a new episode. I'm just totally shamelessly plugging. This is a new episode in the future soon coming out a fast God stuff and it involves a game show. And that's part of the reason why it took three hours just to record probably like 10 minutes. It's about

Tony Arsenal 4:01
Yeah. So if if you're listening to this show via the Society of reform podcasters mega feed, it will no longer be updated. So you should go check out all of the members shows that you love fast God stuff reform pilgrims shield wall podcast. I'm also shutting down the reform standard. I just don't have time for a third podcast. But check out all those shows gospel changes everything. And make sure you go subscribe to their direct feed so that way you don't miss any of the great content.

Jesse Schwamb 4:34
Boom. I love it. All right, so enough bad news. Let's get some affirmations. What you got.

Tony Arsenal 4:39
I'm affirming somebody that I feel like the reform world should know more but don't. So you know, it's like the like the 17th and 18th century, right there's like Calvin and turret in and then most people's like range of knowledge. Maybe they know about our sinus with the Heidelberg catechism. They might know some of like the Westminster divides. But there's this guy named Herman woodsy is that most reformed folk don't really know about or think about. But he's like, a huge, significant figure in covenant theology. So I'm affirming Herman with CS, and his book, which is called the economy of the covenant between God and man, comprehending a complete body of divinity. And, and more or less, it's a, it's a systematic theology book that is organized around the concept of the covenant of works and the covenant of grace. And so so they rather than follow like kind of a standard, reformed systematic sequence, you know, you start with like, scripture, theology, proper Trinity, like that whole sequence that most reformed systematic go through. He starts with the covenant of works and kind of unfolds theology from there. And I just want to show you he ties in other areas of theology and a brilliant way and I just want to read this here. So he's talking about the covenant of works. He's talking about Adam at at innocent Initial created state. And he says here Adam could not from the bear contemplation of nature without revelation discover this mystery. He's talking about the doctrine of the Trinity. And he says just a little bit earlier, it is impossible to suppose Adam ignorant concerning his creator of that which God did not suffer his posterity to be ignorant of at this time, especially as God created man to be the herald of his being in perfection in the new world. So the argument that would see us is making is that we should not presuppose that Adam did not understand the doctrine of the Trinity, because Adam had, at the very least the same amount of knowledge of God that the Christians would have after the coming of Christ. And here's where he links it. He points to some things that kind of says, He says most of the fathers were of the opinion that Adam seeing he was such and so great, a friend of God before his fall, and sometimes seeing God and bodily appearance and heard him speak and the kindness ads But this was always the Son of God. So his reasoning here is that Adam knew God in the sun. And therefore Adam had to have known the doctrine of the Trinity. And so this is actually going to come into play a little bit tonight as we have our conversation because there's a feature of our text in Micah here that I think is really, really rich, Crystal logically that we're going to talk about, but the kindnesses are with CS here. It's really an amazing book. You can get it relatively cheap. It's in two volumes. You can get it for like 20 bucks on log us. I don't actually know anywhere you can get a print copy. So check it out. The economy of covenants between god man is the title. Herman glitziest is the author, and it is just super good.

Jesse Schwamb 7:45
How dare you tease our conversation in the affirmation section of the podcast?

Tony Arsenal 7:49
I know it's not like we've never done that before.

Jesse Schwamb 7:53
I've only heard of this dude, but mainly My only recollection is because his name is awesome.

Tony Arsenal 7:59
Yes. It is.

Jesse Schwamb 8:01
It's a super sweet name. That's a really great, that's a strong affirmation right

Tony Arsenal 8:05
there. What do you got?

Jesse Schwamb 8:07
Nothing that good. My affirmation is far, far more worldly. So everybody Prepare yourselves. So a couple weeks ago, I'm a little bit late on this. I want to mention it last week, but had a better affirmation. So this week, I'm affirming Fitbit, because just a couple weeks ago, Google purchased Fitbit for $2.1 billion. And I'm kind of bullish on this new union. Because I'm a big Fitbit user, you're also a big Fitbit user I am. I really enjoy Fitbit. So I don't know I'm not bullish on this in the sense that I don't know how much value Google is going to actually be able to extract with this because I've actually had a string of kind of failures in this space. But what I love about it is from like a user's perspective, bringing this into the Google ecosystem is only going to be awesome. So I'm actually pretty stoked about Fitbit products, because I've used like several iterations of it bits. I just love it like they're just the right mix for me of encouragement without being like, super annoying and like demanding of me with respect to health, but like, especially I don't know how you feel, but the sleep tracking is like pretty awesome for me. Yeah. Use yours to track your sleep. sleeping.

Tony Arsenal 9:14
Yeah, it's kind of depressing for me because they don't sleep very well.

Jesse Schwamb 9:18
That is depressing, but,

Tony Arsenal 9:19
but it's nice. So I'm not normally one of those people that's like, upset that Google knows everything about me. But this actually makes me a little nervous. Because now Now Google, Google already knows where I am. They know when I'm browsing. They are able to see like what route I take to work.

Jesse Schwamb 9:41
That is their heart rate. And now

Tony Arsenal 9:42
they're going to know my heart rate, what time I'm sleeping, how well I'm sleeping. If I log my food, they're going to know what I'm eating. And I don't think it's going to be long before it's like they're correlating your heart rate with things you're browsing online and making assumptions about like What excites you? So like this is actually probably going to lead to like the next step of advertising. Because before it was like they could track what you liked based on what you clicked. Now it's going to be like they can track what you like big space, someone your heart rate increases when you're browsing the internet.

Jesse Schwamb 10:14
That's basically like already lost though, right? I mean, like, yeah, does that basically. So it's what I like about this is from like a user perspective, I think it can legitimize this, flip it a little bit more, because really, how much further could Fitbit go on its own? I wasn't trying to essentially compete with Apple. Now I watch. I watch the Apple Watch. So this is I like that. It's kind of Google saying there's gotta be some value here for us to use and maybe a straight leverage play. But I'm kind of interested to see how they bring it into the ecosystem. And this is probably like more helpful for you because you're straight Android, right?

Tony Arsenal 10:46
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have an iPad, but yeah, everything else is Android.

Jesse Schwamb 10:51
So it'll be interesting. I'm just curious to see what they do. I really enjoy my Fitbit but like I'm so I've, this is where I've I when I run I use a Garmin so I do carry the Fitbit with me but for everything else, I just use the Fitbit but again I like that it's like not super intrusive because I've seen from other brothers and sisters who own different types of tracking devices. Sometimes those devices are like really demanding of you like to actually make you feel bad at the kind of like health bullies. Yeah, I mean, like if you don't get enough steps if you don't burn enough calories, if you're not standing enough, maybe this makes it clear I'm looking at

Tony Arsenal 11:24
they're like, so like, hey, Daddy, get off your button walk.

Jesse Schwamb 11:30
Fit Ben will never do that to you. Well, they will now call you a fatty.

Tony Arsenal 11:34
They're gonna be like, it looks like you ordered seven pizzas last week and gain six pounds. And your heart rate is like a resting heart rate of 90. Perhaps they're going to start sending you like advertisements for cardiologists.

Jesse Schwamb 11:48
Yeah, that would actually be like it would be hilarious if like I'm, I'm at a pub and I go to order another beer and like the watch, like my Fitbit buzzes and it's like, I don't think so. That's a

Tony Arsenal 11:56
wise decision. That's Well, we've held you an Uber Yeah, me, you know, not that I'm making fun of it and talking about all the ways that Google's gonna invade my life through my Fitbit and Max kinda like actually, you know, be kind of nice. Like, they can tell that like you've had maybe a little bit too much in it like, it's like, maybe you should get an Uber. Would you? Would you like us to call an Uber for you? I'd be like, yes, Google. That'd be great.

Jesse Schwamb 12:23
There's a salad at home waiting for you. Yes.

Tony Arsenal 12:25
You try. You try to order candy online. They're like, No, I don't think so. I don't know. I don't know. I order everything online. That's fair. I ordered batteries online. I couldn't even be bothered to go to the store to get my battery. Really?

Jesse Schwamb 12:39
Yeah, the batteries we're talking about? Are they weird? batteries are normal, but

Tony Arsenal 12:42
now it's just like triple A batteries. I ordered like a good deal of them for like, like two and a half bucks.

Jesse Schwamb 12:49
Man. That's Yeah. So okay. Can I tell a quick story about batteries? Yes. Real quick. Is that right? Yeah. Like use the word quick, more in that one sentence. It's fine. Just do it quick. So thanks. Well done. So my father in law who is like an amazing, sweet, generous man, he does this thing called geocaching. Are you familiar with this? I am. So it's it's like basically treasure hunting for adults, you know, you go put something somewhere like in the woods or in some kind of area that's public. And you put coordinates online, somebody use the GPS, and then they go take those coordinates and they go try to find the thing. So he's part of this big, massive geocaching group. And one of the things they do every year is instead of doing like this secret santa exchange, like this local chapter, what they do is they go they get a giant hat in my mind, I like to think of it as a Santa hat. They throw in then all these coordinates to where gifts are hidden. And then you pull out one of these coordinates and you go find it. What he gives every year because he's a tech guys, he gives what you're talking about, like a giant I think it's like 75 pack of batteries like it's a serious investment like a massive and so every year he gives that and I think that's actually super good gift and then also in particular a really good gift for those who are into technology and he goes In hides it on a cul de sac behind like a guardrail. So I was laughing there because he was telling me that he was getting prepared to do this whole thing all over again. He does it every year. And he went to go place the new gift for this year and found that the old gift was still there.

Tony Arsenal 14:17
jackpot.

Jesse Schwamb 14:19
Yeah, it's like, what like so these batteries have been sitting out in the elements for like 365 days. Yeah,

Tony Arsenal 14:25
they probably don't work that well.

Jesse Schwamb 14:29
But he wears them online and gets like this is the biggest I kid you not like the biggest package of batteries I've ever seen. Like, I was just blown away. Like you have to mount them like he has to like literally, like really duct tape these things to the back of this guide rail, because there's no way that would hold up. It's a huge pack of it. It's like having the batteries I was like, Can I just have those batteries? It was amazing.

Tony Arsenal 14:48
Yeah, it's funny because Amazon has this really great business model. It's not great in terms of like, good for the economy, but it's like a good business model in terms of good for consumers and good for Amazon they they identify what people like the kinds of like generalize things people are buying online and then they then they find someone who will make those for them super cheap. So then when you start searching for stuff you that's where you come up please like Amazon basics. So like Ashley my wife Ashley, your sister goes online to buy dog poop bags. And so we ordered them the first time and we thought we were just getting like a normal amount you know you like get them at the pet store. You buy them in packages of like six and it came it was like it what we thought it was 120 bags of poopy roll a poopy bags, and it was 120 rolls of poopy bags. And the dog is three years old and we just now had to order our second batch of poopy bags. So it's like the batteries are Amazon basics. You can get cables. And this is this just turned into an affirmation of of Amazon apparently.

Jesse Schwamb 15:57
I guess I didn't literally soap like in a jar. unboxing just got roles of bad yeah,

Tony Arsenal 16:02
like we had like the first time we got it. We're like, where are we going to put all these poopy bags?

Jesse Schwamb 16:07
That's hilarious. Yeah, I love it. All right, well move us into the denial range here. What are you denying this week?

Tony Arsenal 16:14
So I'm denying game consoles, but not so much for why you might think I'm denying them because I really want a Nintendo Switch. And they're way too expensive. So I went over to to Ashley and I went over to a friend's house and while the girls went out for a walk, I hung out and we played video games, which I haven't sat and played console video games and probably like 10 years. And the Nintendo switches like this really cool little device because you can use it like a Gameboy, like a handheld device. But then you can also dock it and it takes what's on the screen for the handheld device and it like, sends it to your TV and you can play with a controller on the TV. So it's like really that's why it's a Nintendo Switch is it like converts really well. So I I'm like, this is cool. Like this is this is a game system that I could actually play and it's, it's Nintendo. So it's usually like more fun games instead of like, really serious like high graphics games. So like I was playing like a Marvel Avengers Alliance game. Like they have Pokemon, or like Smash Brothers, like just fun goofy games like no real thought games. And I looked it up and the Nintendo switches like $300 Whoa, and then like, dang, like $300 that's a lot of money. So, in other news, thank you for all your donations to the report. I'm just totally just kidding. But like, Man, these systems have gotten so expensive.

Jesse Schwamb 17:37
Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. You're not joking.

Tony Arsenal 17:39
I know. So I need Amazon to make like an Amazon basic switch. So when you order it, it's like $77 he like six of them. Get on that Amazon.

Jesse Schwamb 17:53
I love it. That's fantastic. I am so I see this on TV. This is like the system to where like, it's got options that are There's games that are more like physically oriented, right? Like Yeah, with the switch, like on your thigh and you can run around and there's like a right steering wheel shaped kind of like joystick where you can like do stuff. Yeah.

Tony Arsenal 18:11
Yeah, it's kind of like the predecessor like the the descendant of the Nintendo Wii. Only not it's like, destructive, like smashing into stuff like you were at the week. But it's a cool system. And I would get one except it's so expensive.

Jesse Schwamb 18:23
Very clever. Yeah, that is more expensive than I would have thought. I'm with you. I haven't played video games in a while. But part of me thinks if I did, it would be awesome. Like I would love it just kind of getting into that mindset having like some time because there's Is there anything like video games to help you kind of have a little bit of a break and decompress? Yeah, rest? It's something unique about them.

Tony Arsenal 18:40
Yeah, I mean, I play video games, but like, I usually play them on my phone or like on on my computer. I haven't had like a console game in a really long time. And part of the reason I haven't had an console is like we really only have one TV that I could use that for. So if I want to play games like Ashley can't watch TV, but with this, like if I'm playing on the TV, and Ashley wants to come and watch TV, I just take the thing out of the doc, I don't even have to restart the game. It just converts to the small thing. And then when she's done, I just put it back on. So it's like really like it's a really interesting design feature that solves like a major problem that video game consoles have had

Jesse Schwamb 19:16
Nintendo doing.

Tony Arsenal 19:18
Yeah, well, they have to be gimmicky if they want to have a hope of competing with PlayStation and Xbox. So that's true. Yeah. So what about you? What are you denying,

Jesse Schwamb 19:26
or semi denial focuses around language? It's mainly out of a conversation I just had with my wife. And let me just say at the outset, she's saying that I'm a native about this. Okay, so that is the color hopefully that will kind of provide some shading on what I'm about to say. So I have to ask this, though, in the form of a question to you so as not to like, have you bias toward what I'm about to say. So this type of this thing has just been installed in my area. My brother Gordy knows what I'm talking about here, but they've just put in what I'm going to call like a traffic circle. Talking about Yeah,

Tony Arsenal 20:00
like a roundabout What?

Jesse Schwamb 20:02
There we go. What do you call that thing? That's what you call it?

Tony Arsenal 20:05
Yeah, I mean, I think I probably normally call it a roundabout but like in New England, they're usually called rotaries.

Jesse Schwamb 20:10
Yes. Okay, so like, that's the word I was using. And I was like we just opened today. So we're, it's the Lord's day for us. And also for you. To make it sound like, that's just my unique experience. It's the last thing for everybody as we're recording this, it's true. And so the first time this was opened, and so on the church is on the other side of this traffic circle. And I have been calling all day a rotary and my wife has been saying to me, that sounds really like uppity you need to call it around about and I was like, it's not around about though like it's a rotary I'm pretty sure like if you actually look up, like Department of Transportation, documents, they're going to call it a rotary understand what it meant but a roundabout to me sounds like very European and grey, right

Tony Arsenal 21:02
then that's these, my understanding is like this kind of traffic function or traffic feature started in Europe like it's a British thing mostly. And they call them roundabouts. So like, the only reason I ever called around about it because that's like the first time I ever heard of them. But like, I've always heard them like when you see signs in Massachusetts forum where we used to live, the sign says now entering traffic rotary. So like, Yeah, I don't know.

Jesse Schwamb 21:29
So I guess the denial is more about like, I'm denying against me being perceived as somebody that's uppity. I'm just calling it a rotary now because it's like a fancy term but because like that's a term I know and I'm pretty sure technically that's what it's called because nobody talks about like this is Australian but it's obviously derivative of British English. Like when you go for a walk like or like a meandering walk nobody's like are you going on a walk about I got no sense is a specific thing. But yeah, the about the about the kind of suffix that's like distinctly Until so I'm like, Come on people embrace the American way. It's a rotary make it happen.

Unknown Speaker 22:05
Yeah. I mean, I feel like

Jesse Schwamb 22:10
I like this just I'm kind

Tony Arsenal 22:12
of stunned that that the fact that you'd be called up and he for calling it a rotary. I think Jen's being an eight.

Jesse Schwamb 22:19
Yeah, thank you.

Tony Arsenal 22:20
That's now that's part of the public record now for all time. But I don't know like, I don't know what's what sounds uppity about rotary. If anything, I think roundabout sounds more uppity

Jesse Schwamb 22:33
well, so I think that in her mind the rotary sounds too technical, but it really didn't get to the point on the way home as soon as I can you really please stop calling it that and I was like, why? Like she was like, genuinely Can you refer to it as around about and I was like, No, I can't actually on sheer principle of the English language. And that's what's called.

Tony Arsenal 22:52
Yeah, according to Wikipedia, the US Department of Transportation adopted the term quote, modern roundabout. distinguish those that require entry and drive ways to give way to others. The article follows the convention that refers to other types of traffic circles or rotaries, many old traffic circles remain in north eastern US. Some modern roundabouts are elongated to a compass additional Street, but traffic always follows a loop. In the United States traffic engineers typically use the term rotary for large scale circular junctions between expressways or control access highways. Rotary's typically feature high speeds inside the circle and on a promo so I don't know whether what you have is around about or rotary

Jesse Schwamb 23:38
Well, that's so now I'm feeling there's like a strange weight of conviction, that's real time and we're gonna have some connection time is that this is like a single lane very tiny. So maybe it is around about maybe it's all about size, and rotary is large scale and roundabout is tiny miniature version. It's like the mini me of rotaries, so I guess, Wow, well, I'm gonna have to apologize after this. So I gotta say, Yeah, well, they're at the risk of extending this just a little bit further, because I know you've lived in New England for some time. Now. Do you enjoy a good rotary or roundabout? Are you down with that? Or do you find it to be like intimidating and you just rather have a traffic light?

Tony Arsenal 24:27
I don't think they're intimidating. I'm not entirely sure exactly how they improve traffic flow. I mean, I think they do. But it's one of those things where I can't quite get my head around how they do that. I think they trendy? Well, no, but I think I think they I think they improve traffic flow, when it's not busy, because then you don't have to stop like if there's no cars, you just go into the loop and come out. But I feel like when it's busy, they seem like a death trap. But I don't know that I've ever known anybody that's been in an accident. Not a rotary around about so

Jesse Schwamb 25:02
I don't know, I'll report back to you because this is new in our area, though I'm familiar with them. And I was watching the video that the department transportation put out in anticipation of this. Yeah. Because here's the great experiment of the rotary or the roundabout and that is you really have to trust everybody because they have to use their blinker and for some reason people hate using their blinker. So yeah, what I'm concerned about is when it's very busy, and that's presumably why they put in this rotary is because the area in which it's in, ends up with a lot of backed up traffic, when it's the most busy part of the day. For those of you who are not familiar, like when you're in the rotor, this is ridiculous. We're talking about this when you're in the rotary, you have the right of way. So you're not supposed to stop for anybody or let anybody in, right?

Tony Arsenal 25:45
Everybody's supposed yield coming into the rotary.

Jesse Schwamb 25:48
Exactly. So if that's true, I'm with you. I'm a little bit of a having some trouble conceiving of this because we're basically saying is, it's possible in my mind that one one outlet of the rotary is going to continue just to feed traffic in the and nobody would be able to get in or few people be able to get in depending on where they're exiting the rotary.

Tony Arsenal 26:08
Yeah. This is crazy. I don't know. Do you know this makes me think of? I don't remember the name of it. But it's the Christmas vacation movie where they Yes. Yeah, National Lampoon? Is it called? Is it called European vacation? Or? Yes, it is. Yeah. They get into the big roundabout around Big Ben and they just drive around in circles until it's nighttime. It's my favorite scene and all those movies they just driving around and around and around around.

Jesse Schwamb 26:35
Speaking about going around, and around and around, and

Tony Arsenal 26:38
I was going to make the same segue. Let's talk

Unknown Speaker 26:42
about some Micah.

Jesse Schwamb 26:45
Let's do it. We're back into Micah cast in chapter four, and we're looking at verses one through seven. So like without any further delay, would you like to read those separate seven verses in chapter four?

Tony Arsenal 26:59
Yes, we're This is actually kind of to appease the six and seven is a second principle we're going to lump in. So starting in verse, verse one of chapter four, it shall come to pass in the later days, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills and people shall flow to it. And many nations shall come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us His ways, and that we may walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide disputes for strong nations far away. They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore, but they shall set every man under his vine and under his fig tree, and no one shall make them afraid. The mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken for all the peoples walk each in the name of its God. And we will walk in the name of the Lord our God forever and ever. In that day declares the Lord, I will assemble the lame, and gather those who have been driven away. And those who might have afflicted and the lame I will make the remnant and those who are cast off a strong nation, and the Lord will reign over them in mountain Zion, from this time forth and forevermore.

Jesse Schwamb 28:27
So what a beautiful passage, right? Yeah. Once again, and if this sounds familiar, it's for good reason. So, at least here from what we talked about in the past, Mike is prophetic vision is shifting from this impending judgment in the short term, to the final days, like you read the latter days, yeah, when the Messianic reign of God is established in Zion. And again, if this sounds very reminiscent, it's because the first part of this Oracle verses one through five, it's essentially the identical thing that Isaiah talks about in chapter two of his book.

Tony Arsenal 29:00
Yeah, I mean, this is, this is one of those passages I, you know, I talk a lot about doing like Bible in a year reading plans. And one of the things that's tough, you know, everybody gets stalled out in like Leviticus and Deuteronomy just because it's difficult reading, and there doesn't feel like there's a lot of momentum. But where I actually struggle the most is like right towards the end of the profits. Because it's like, it's like you're getting pounded by like the evilness and the darkness of Israel. And like, then you get to you get to the beginning of Matthew. And it's like, you can finally like, you can finally take a breath. And like this is one of those spots in Miko where it feels like that we just came out of three chapters of more or less straight judgment, like grotesque analogies about building walls and cities out of people's blood and bodies about cannibalism, the darkness, the oppression, and then all the sudden it's like, it's like we get dragged forward into the consummate hope of Israel. Which is the consummate hope of all people. And suddenly we can breathe again. And it really is like I read it this morning again during my devotions, and it was like, like, I could take a deep breath. It was like a good sigh and just felt good to read this

Jesse Schwamb 30:13
was very refreshing, because what we see always with God's plan, and we've talked about this before, even in our modern evangelical era, so to speak, here were no era, that error is that that's the New England

Tony Arsenal 30:27
XAV is our modern even job.

Jesse Schwamb 30:31
It could be but I hope that and what I'm about to say, is we always have in here that the law and the gospel right and for me, what we have here is this embodiment of here is Micah laying down in many ways, the law This is how you've transgressed God Himself. This is how you've gone against him how as people who are prideful, that you've actually incurred the wrath of God, and then all the sudden there is this, here's salvation. Here's the way out that God has provided people here is The ram in the thicket. And so you're right there is almost a sense in which we suddenly it's as if we've been running hard trying to achieve something for ourselves. And God says, Stop. Yeah, and we can take a breath and fill our lungs again and catch our breath. So I'm with you. Like there's something refreshing in this. And I assume you're are preparing, like when you you texted me this morning and said something about like, there's all these like, wonderful theological themes. Yeah. And because I was trying to be like funny, but also it seemed like I was probably from your perspective being more of a jerk back like, Oh, is this passage about Jesus is to mark exclamation point. But that's like the whole the whole point is like in saying that we're seeing in here with the Prophet is doing is he's bringing together telescoping I guess, if you will, this the sense where he's obviously addressing in real time, almost like eternally contemporary, the issues of the day, but talking about what God is about to do, yeah. Also in this is the richness of the full salvation of the blood sacrifice. of the covering that Christ brings for us. That's just as relevant then as it was now maybe even more. So. Yeah.

Tony Arsenal 32:07
Yeah. So let's break this down a little bit. So we got verses one and two. And you know what's amazing about this right? If you just go back to three, verse 12, it's talking about how Zion and Jerusalem will be plowed over like a field, right? There's going to be this heap of ruins. And the temple it's talking about the temple specifically, or the temple is going to be like a wooded forest on top of a hill like there's not going to be any structure, it's going to be ruined, it's gonna be like a field. And then immediately it's like flips over to the scene where now that same mountain which was a field and a heap of ruins, is now established as the highest of all the mountains. So that's using this image obviously like we don't think that like in the last days, like all the sudden this hill in Jerusalem is going to like pop out of the ground and there's going to be like this immediate of like geographic or geological change in Jerusalem. I mean, maybe but I don't think that that's what this is saying. But But what it's saying is like, out of all the hills and in, in, in ancient worlds or an ancient, like worldviews where your city was, and the hill kind of represented the essence of your city or your people, right? You think about like the seven, the seven hills of Rome, right? They talk about the hills or mountains I and like this idea that the mountain that your city is on or the hill that your city is on rep, being representative of your people is a really prominent theme. And so what this is saying here is like the people of Israel, God's people, and God's mountain, God's Hill will be elevated such that all of the other peoples of the world are going to look to it. And there's, there's some really interesting language here. So in the end of verse one, beginning of verse two, it says, the people shall flow to it and many nations shall come and say, and then here's the They say the actual literal language is like the people shall river to it, they shall flow like a river, up this hill. So we've talked about how there's this like reversal of expectations and Micah, where, you know, we see like this language that shows us just how surprising the salvation of the Lord is. And even in this one little way, like, it's so surprising, the mountain will be so significant, that even the gravity that like the the imagery of water rolling down a hill, will be reversed. So now we have instead of water rolling down a hill, we have people flowing up to the Hill, like a river to flow into the Lord's presence to worship Him. And they say, Come, let us go to the mountain of the Lord to the house of the God of Jacob. So now now, even in this text, right, the people of Israel could never have conceived of a time where the Lord didn't have a temple, right? That was just not something they could have conceptualized. So in the temple is destroyed was a significant thing, but if you look carefully, even in This passage, he's not talking about a temple, the mountain of the Lord is the house of Jacob. Right? He just got done saying that the temple will be destroyed. And now he says, Let's go to the up the mountain of the Lord to the house of Jacob. So there's this foreshadowing, and this is we're going to get into the Christology aspect here in just a minute. There's this foreshadowing of what said at the end of Revelation, that there will no longer be a need for a temple because the Lord will be the temple and he will dwell among his people. That's the eschatological hope. Not, not some and I have, there are people that I know that are dispensation lyst that I love and respect, and they all exist on this spectrum of like super literalist crazy The temple is going to be rebuilt exactly like it was two more figurative, but they all believe in a rebuilt temple. But all throughout the Old Testament, it's clear the hope is not the temple, like you can't be a dispensation lyst and read a passage like this, and not abstract it from chapter three completely and understand that there's a temple there's no reference to it. Temple in this passage anywhere, except for this phrase house of the Lord. But we know because immediately before that the house of the Lord is destroyed, the physical house of the Lord is destroyed.

Jesse Schwamb 36:09
Right? And it all hangs from Micah, on this reference to these latter days. Right. And to your point, that phrase is designated like this new epoch for the profit that life some point in the hidden future. So without getting wrapped up in like, when is it that he's speaking about what we know for sure, as you just said, is the new epoch is a complete alteration of history in every dimension. And it is the goal toward which all these events are sovereign Lee striving. So this idea that it's going to be so radically redefined that even this he uses this example of gravity, like you said, This flowing of the river is going to go up the mountain. And I'm glad you brought that up. Because that is what really stuck out to me is that this idea that the highest of the mountains, the pagans worshiped their gods at the mountain shrines, and there was a sense of which one of course your top of the mountain anybody's ever heard. climbed to some kind of peak and looked out, gives you a sense of transcendence. So it makes it makes sense that they would plant themselves there as an act of worship. But Israel's God who is worshipped on Mount Zion, will establish himself in the eyes of all races and all nations as the only true and living God, even as he is worshipped today. So what's interesting is the spiritual significance of Mount Zion was actually disproportionate to his physical size. It's not the highest mountain, geologically speaking in that region. But this goes back here we see like the continuity of the Scriptures, to something that Jesus says when he's quoting john the baptist and Luke three he says, Every valley shall be filled and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall become straight in the rough places. So become a level ways and all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Yeah. So here's Micah, bring in these wonderful terms, totally read it, redefining every essence of life itself, including coming The physical reality, the spatial, the understanding of gravity itself, and saying that regardless of the size of Mount Zion, God Himself is bigger than all of that. But representative by which he's saying, God is going to make himself great among all the nations and all will look to him and all we'll see him. And where else do we see that fulfillment, including like this idea of being high and lifted up, except in Jesus Christ?

Tony Arsenal 38:25
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it really is. We talked about this last week, like it really is amazing how consistent throughout the whole scripture. These images are at last week, we talked about this idea of chaos being indicative of God's absence, and how God God's wrath and his judgment takes the form of him withdrawing his restraint. And then we have here like you ready to get into the Christology of this like this? This isn't my mind things, right? So we get to verse, the end of verse two, and it says out of Zion shall go forth. The last And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between many peoples and shall decide disputes for strong nations far away. They shall beat their plows, share their swords into plowshares, so on and so forth. Now, it's certainly possible that he shall judge a verse three is pointing back to he may teach in verse two, which was clearly talking about Yahweh and but I actually think that it's more accurate to read, he shall judge as a reference to the word of the Lord. So we've talked about this before. The phrase, the word of the Lord throughout the Old Testament, especially in the prophets, actually takes on this personalized force like it's the word of the Lord. It's not just a fancy way to say, God said, The word of the Lord is actually an agent that comes and acts and has will and desire and expresses himself. So the word of the Lord comes forth from Jerusalem, and the word of the Lord judges between people the word of the Lord decides disputes and because of what the word of the Lord Does in preaching the law to the nation's that's what causes them to beat their their spears into pruning hooks. And so it's funny because what I was going to do for my denial today is I just got back onto Twitter for a long time. All I was using Twitter for was like promotions for like the podcast and my blog, like I had software that pushed links over to those platforms, and I didn't ever really log into them. But I logged back into Twitter this week just to kind of see what was going on. And I don't even know how this guy got in my list. But there was a PC us a guy who his his comment basically said, if you think that the Old Testament talks specifically about Jesus, then you're an anti Semite. And and I was like, What are you talking about? I didn't really want to go further than that. I mean, I tweeted back to him, and I was like, Well, Jesus, Jesus says that the salt some of the songs are about him. The author of Hebrews says, you know that the Psalms are about the sun. So I think your standard is messed up. But there's a whole contingency of people, not even just In the liberal PC USA, right, even within certain quarters of Reformed theology, Derrick Thomas, for example, will say that like we shouldn't read the phrase Let Us make man in our own image in the opening chapters of Genesis, we shouldn't read that as a reference to the Trinity. But when you look at a passage like this, and then you look at something like revelation 21, which is in a very real sense, is the divine commentary on this passage and other prophetic eschatology passages, it's really clear, it's possible that the the original author wasn't seeing this and it doesn't change much about the meaning whether the original author thought he was writing about, you know your way and sort of like this vague unit, like unitary but plural sense, or whether he understood as someone like with CS would argue that the prophets knew more about the Trinity than we usually think they lead on, but I want to go real quick to Genesis to wrap Relation 2021 Here, let me pull it up. So while I'm doing that, can you pull up? Can you read? Let's do Mike a four, two through four again.

Jesse Schwamb 42:15
4234 Yeah, go ahead and read it again. That's a good thing. We got technology I know. Alright, so here's Mike 4234. And many nations shall come and say, calm let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us His ways and that we may walk in his pass.

Tony Arsenal 42:34
All right, hold on right there. So the nations come up, right, right. Revelation 2126. They will bring into the glory and honor of the nations but nothing unclean will enter nor anyone who does what is detestable. So so the city comes down the nations flow into it, and they will they will bring into it the glory and honor of nations. All right, go ahead.

Jesse Schwamb 42:57
For out of Zion shall go forth. The law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between many peoples and show the side disputes for strong nations Fire away, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. nation shall not lift up sword against nation, but neither shall they learn war anymore.

Tony Arsenal 43:20
All right, so. So, what we have in Micah, right we have the nations the glory of Zion, the word of the Lord goes forth to the nation's and and they are coming into Zion, they're receiving teaching, and the house of the Lord is on the hill of Zion, right? The house of the Lord, which is in the Old Testament is typically referring to the temple. But immediately previously in verse in chapter three, Michael makes it clear that the temple is destroyed. He's not talking about the temple. So here's starting in verse 22, of revelation 21. And I saw no temple in the city for the temple is the Lord God, the Almighty and the lamb. The city has no need of sun or moon to shine in it for the glory of God gives its light, and the lamp is the Lamb, by its light, by its light will the nation's walk and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. And its gates will never be shut by day, and there will be no night there. They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations but nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life. So, so we have in Micah, we have this really clear reference to the fact that Yahweh a God himself will teach the nations right the people will come into His presence, they will flow into the news ion onto the mountain of the Lord, into the house of Jacob, and they will be taught by God and then the Word of God goes forth and judges between the people and establishes justice on the earth. Well, then we look over at at Revelation and that judge that temple that glory of the Lord is Jesus. It's not just right god, it's the God Almighty and the lamb. So even even if we want to say like this is not a direct reference to the sun, per se, we still have God teaching the people. And so at the very least what we say is revelations, expanding our understanding of this passage, to understand that it's not a Unitarian God, Mike is not talking about the Unitarian God, even if he didn't know it, which I think he did. But even if he didn't know it, Michael was talking about the sun, and that you read Calvin, you read all of them, they'll say, doubtless, this is Christ, like there's no doubt that the word of the Lord in this picture is Christ. For sure, somehow, our more modern context, we've lost sight of the fact that the prophets are receiving direct revelation from God. Why would we be surprised that they have a better understanding of theology than then then we who have not received you know, immediate direct revelation from God my

Jesse Schwamb 45:58
right I mean, I think if you just Read this on the face. What you should come to just logically speaking is the sense that God is setting us up for something, right? Yeah, is it? It's almost as if what we have in Micah is a puzzle piece. And there's a divot in it. And then we have Jesus who fits exactly in the puzzle piece that Mike has given us. And so in this new epoch, the one that he's describing here, all of these old earthly religious representations are being passed away. Yeah. And through the priesthood of the Ascended Jesus, the church comes directly to this heavenly reality. That's the beauty of this. Yeah, so all these earthly religious earthly religious center he describes it's being eclipsed by the coming of the new order. And this is why it's almost like too easy. Isn't it? Like to find that scripture in the New Testament? Yeah, exactly fits like so cohesively with what Mike is saying here. And so what I would draw us to is Hebrews chapter 12, which came to me as you were speaking about this, so let me just pull up this Hebrews 12, beginning of verse 12, but you have come to Mount Zion. So here we are, again, that familiar language of this passage, and to the city of the living God, that is Jerusalem, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festival gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven and to God, the judge of all, into the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant to the sprinkle blood that speaks a better word than Abel. So we have this so consistency, which it's almost like even if you want to judge this straight on the kind of a linguistic presentation here, you find that there's a crazy amount of overlap in language that's being used to describe what's happening here. And describing who Jesus is, and the benefits that he provides through through salvation here. And what's crazy to me is that this is where I'm with you, I think, in the sense that we fail to appreciate what Mike is saying, because I think what he's drawing us to is, God is so genius. So Amazing, so otherworldly, so alien that you cannot conceive of a trend Attarian concept. And yet what God gives us through Jesus Christ by identifying with humanity is something so amazing that it should be mind blowing even on like the supernatural spectrum, right?

Tony Arsenal 48:18
Like, does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know that the analogy that I've heard used about the doctrine of the Trinity in the Old Testament, or the doctrine of the hydrostatic Union, the Old Testament that I think is the most appropriate, not not an analogy of those things, but analogy about how those things are present in the Old Testament, is if you walk into a room and the lights are turned off, it doesn't change what's in the room. Right? Right. The fact that you can't see what's in the room does not change what is actually in the room. But when someone turns on the light, you can then clearly see the furniture in the room. And that's that's how the doctrine of the Trinity is in the Old Testament a lot is it's all there. Like it's not like it's not like we're reading things into the Old Testament or an There. Instead, what you have is you have all this stuff that was there, but the lights weren't turned on. And so right and this is what happened in the early church, Jesus comes, the lights are turned on, right? He he illuminates their minds, to what is there in the scripture and how to understand it. And the doctrine of the Trinity is born not out of philosophical reflection, but out of the experience of the second person of the Trinity. And then the the re, the re investigating the Old Testament in light of the reality of what's there. And so when when, I mean, this is all over the New Testament, right? In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, right? That's john, looking at Genesis and going, I need to understand the book of Genesis and teach it in light of what I know to be true now because of Jesus Christ. Right, right. Collections does that a lot. We see it here now with Micah and with Revelation, Revelation does it all over the place with other prophetic books ZQ Isaiah, it's all there. You know, Psalm 110, right? It seems like in the gospels, when Jesus says to them, well, how can how can David be saying to the Lord who's Lord like, how can David be calling the Messiah Lord, but is also his grandfather, great grandfather, right? That's that's putting their his finger on a mystery that the Pharisees were already trying to figure out. Like, there were already passages. If you look at rabbinical literature, there's passages where they're looking at they're going, I don't understand this, I can't I can't grapple with how this is true. How can this be? So it's not as though Jesus just like threw a question at them they'd never heard they were already grappling with that question. And and the difference between the Pharisees and the apostles is that the Holy Spirit illuminates the apostles minds to be able to look back at the Old Testament and get the answer. Instead of looking at it and going, I don't know, I just can't figure it out. They look in and they go, that's Jesus. That's Jesus. And that's what we should be seeing in this prophecies. That's Jesus. Right? This is about Jesus and about what he's going to do not just on the cross, we've seen that in Micah, we've seen atonement language we've seen foreshadowing of the cross. But in the consummation of all things, it's still ultimately even in the profits about Jesus.

Jesse Schwamb 51:15
Right? That should just be the clip from this episode. He's saying over and over again. That's Jesus. Because it's true. Yeah, we laughed, because it seems so ironic and perhaps humorous. But the bottom line is that Jesus has always been the progenitor of salvation. So when Paul looks back, and he speaks about the Israelites wandering in the desert speaking by striking the rock, he says, and that rock was Christ like, right, so this is biblical language. Even Paul is basically affirming what you're saying, in the same way saying, that's Jesus. Yeah, it was always this way. You know, one of the things that I think is helpful for us as we think about the fact that Jesus always been president, he's been president, the trade and here we have him manifest in the Old Testament, is what is the outworking of that. I think that might be a hopeful place for us to land kind of as we conclude the conversation is, in this particular pick up this idea of this language of out of Zion out of Zion come this people, there's a unified people and the people are unified because that is Jesus, right? And we see him unifying all of history by way of bringing about salvation, but also because he's large enough and grand enough to bring about a salvation of all tribes, all nations, all languages, like we spoke about before. So the prophet Micah in Isaiah as well because their contemporaries proclaim this new air which been talking about in which Jews and Gentiles are going to serve this one king. And so the Oracle tells us, how the temple of God bring together all this language will be elevated to become the focus of the spiritual desire of the nation's, so the peoples of the world will come to seek the revelation of God, which emanates from Jerusalem is manifested in Jesus Christ. So Yahweh is worldwide sovereignty will issue in a worldwide judgment, which will be followed by universal peace and so the individual will then enjoy this security, this domestic happiness is the language of verse four that's using describing this prosperous conditions, almost the same thing of Solomon's reign in the Book of Kings. And so I love that what we get out of this is not just something that's only apropos to those in my guess time. But here we see what are the outworking of the salvation that Jesus brings? It is a unification of all peoples together, serving and worshiping one king.

Tony Arsenal 53:28
Yeah, yeah. So I wanna I want to look at one more spot here because we've talked a little bit about how Isaiah and Micah are very parallel. We haven't really dive dived into the parallels that much, but I'm going to read something out of the book of Luke. And then I want you to read verses six and seven of Micah. And so okay, I'm reading out of Luke chapter seven. It's the just to set the scene. john the baptist has been put in prison, right? Right. john the baptist, some people paint this as like he's having a crisis of faith. I'm not sure if I buy that but either way He sent some of his disciples to Jesus to ask if Jesus is indeed the Messiah, or if there's some coming, and this is Jesus response, he says, And he answered them go and tell john what you have seen and heard the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleanse, and the deaf hear the dead are raised, the poor have good news, preach to them, and bless it is the one who's not offended by me. So go ahead with Micah four, six and seven.

Jesse Schwamb 54:27
In that day, declares the Lord, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom I have afflicted and the lame, I will make the remnant and those who were cast off a strong nation, and the Lord will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and forevermore. And a podcast.

Tony Arsenal 54:44
Yeah, I mean, you know, in that passage, Luke has an affinity and is vested in demonstrating that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Icelandic prophecies, right? Sure. from Jesus opening the scroll in the synagogue reading from Isaiah. There's a lot of Isaiah quoted in there. But Jesus could just as easily has pointed at this section in Micah and said, Well, what are you seeing john? I've assembled blame those that I've afflicted I've gathered, the lame will be made strong, and I'm rainy I will rain in mountain Zion so so all throughout this we see, it's not just about salvation in like the abstract. Like freedom from health sense, right? That's right, since sort of like Charles Finney, Billy Graham, evangelism evangelicalism, it's been mostly about salvation from hell, like get out of hell. And then that becomes live your best life now. Like it mutates into that, but but what the prophets are getting at, it's not just about salvation from Babylon. It's not just about coming back to the promised land. The profits are always driving at the eschatological hope of all people, even when it doesn't seem like they exactly Understand that? I don't think that I don't think that Michael was looking at this going. Yeah. Well, when we come back from when we come back from Babylon, you know, people who were crippled before are gonna be able to walk like I don't think that's what he's saying, right? I think he understood like this is bigger than just the return from Babylon and Isaiah was saying this is bigger than, you know, when he's talking about setting captives free. It's bigger than just the captives returning, they understood that it's about Jesus. And Jesus is about the eschatology, right? It's not just about temporal union with Christ. It's about the fact that we will enjoy permanent eschatological hope. And what does this say? Right, the Lord will reign over them in mountain Zion from this time, and forevermore. And now we're right back in Revelation 21. Right revelation 2122. The Lord Himself is the temple who reigns from Zion and all the peoples of the earth will worship Him. It really is like this. This series in the prophets in Micah has really been like a huge huge boost for my faith. Because as much as we talk about how important the scriptures are, and how cohesive they are, and we love the scriptures, this has just gotten me excited about reading through the Scriptures on a broad scale, in ways that I don't think that I've been before and like this, I hope this doesn't sound hopelessly like pompous. But I haven't been trained to make these connections. Like I didn't take exegetical courses in seminary, I was a church history major and a systematic theology major. I didn't do Old Testament Old Testament XE Jesus, like, but you don't have to like this stuff. If you read the scriptures, and you're, you're paying attention to like words that overlap and concepts that overlap. This stuff just screams off the page at you. It's not that difficult to see if you're paying even a little bit attention to what you're reading and taking notes of themes that you're seeing.

Jesse Schwamb 57:54
Well, this is the great and wonderful graciousness of God toward us that not only would He revealed himself in general revelation, but specifically in the scriptures here. When the Holy Spirit's provides illumination, he does it in a way that's like completely expansive and integrative. And I think by the grace of God, we can sit here and have a conversation. Yeah. station and say, isn't it amazing that here in Micah, we are seeing the same language, and then we're having kind of the same heartfelt reality that that what's being described here is the same that Jesus describes himself the same that Paul describes him and his epistles the same the same the way that which the author of Hebrews describes him as well. All of this is cohesive, but then is because God is so good to us. Yeah, that he would open our eyes to see this. Whereas I think sometimes we were quick to say, well, it just makes sense. That sensibility comes from God right off and even that is a wonderful gift. And when you receive that, by way of gift, I think just like Micah, I'm with you. I think we're Mike is writing this the reason why there's so much passion so much zealousness behind this, this information, this data he's delivering, even in the wake of this amazing headwind of the people being so resistant. So, so I don't even know whether we're looking for is, so they just don't want to have anything to do with what he's saying. The reason why I think he can use to declare it is because he is so captivated by this truth. And the truth is weighty, because I think even he perceives, that it's not just about what's being what's happening in the moment, but about this living hope that is the Son of God. to whatever degree he understands that to where the the God has revealed it to him. I don't think there's any doubt that he recognizes that there is a living hope beyond these words, that transcends the immediate environment in which he's delivering them. Yeah. And so I think we are to marinate and what that means for us because we have the great blessing of being on the other side of the I hate that cliche, I guess. But being on the other side of everything, and being able, by God's grace to live in an era where we can put together these pieces, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, see them in the full grand arc of the story that God has delivered to us. And then we also just worship like, how are we not even singing right now? You're singing all day long? Yeah, because of what we see manifested in the Gospel and reflected and anticipated in the Old Testament.

Tony Arsenal 1:00:24
Yeah, you know, this isn't super related, but it's kind of related. Like,

Jesse Schwamb 1:00:30
I'm excited about this. I'm

Tony Arsenal 1:00:32
right after we're done with this podcast, I'm going to go downstairs, I'm going to watch some dishes. But after I wash some dishes, I'm going to go back out and I'm going to join again with the Lord's people. And we're going to have Bible study and we're going to have some fellowship, and we're going to share some good food, and like, what could be better on the Lord's day than taking some time to digest the scriptures, right, that the meats that God has given us man doesn't live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God to digest this and then with this exciting Mint and this joy in the hope we have in Christ. That's, that's building in us from from spending time in the word together, to go back to God's people, for another time of fellowship and worship like, this is just, I don't know, like podcasting doesn't seem like a spiritual discipline, but it really feels like, like sometimes a little bit of a spiritual discipline, because it's like, yes, we're doing this thing where we're going through this tax, something that I've never studied in depth before. And like, I'm learning all I almost feel a little bit of shame that like, I haven't studied this, and learn this stuff before because it's so significant. But like, but that's how the Holy Spirit works, right? Like I've read Michael before, but I've never read it in this depth, and I've never spent the time to really get into it. And now the Holy Spirit is blessing us with this deep look at the scripture that we hadn't had before. So I mean, we serve such a great and glorious God, who takes silly little things like two guys talking into some microphones that a couple hundred people might listen to, and he like changes our lives with it. It's really quite amazing.

Jesse Schwamb 1:02:02
Because it would have been enough, right if God had just given us some amazing data, some communication, right? So explanation of who he was, with this passage. We just so much more than that. Yeah, he's bringing together some some kind of like cohesive understanding of who he is by way of time in space and circumstance that I want. What I want to say I guess, is, can we as Christians just allow ourselves to embrace the excitement? I got a little bit pumped up about the fact that in Micah, this Old Testament almost seemingly random book Yeah, where he's talking to a particular group of people in a particular instance that here we see Christ so clearly described, yeah, not only for the language, but then of course, all the spiritual reality as well. Can we not just kind of get a little bit excited about that, like litter emotions kind of becomes a little bit in tune with that. Yeah, not because we're trying to create some kind of high emotional response, but because when we see something that's awesome, where that's why we're here and also song we seen amazing playing some kind of sporting event, we are prone to respond and we should be no different here. So I hope people are kind of grabbing on the excitement that you and I have as we're like looking at the text and just talking because we started with like rotaries and roundabouts. And this is far more exciting. Yeah, and far better. And I hope what I would really like to encourage people as we can, I guess, draw this to a close is that I hope that people are doing a couple things. One is that they're involved on the Lord's Day, as you said, with the people of God, in the expression in their worship of God, and in the sacraments. The second thing is that I hope that people outside of the Lord's day are coming together with those in their community, who are brothers and sisters, to spend time in the scriptures and to live life together, bringing that forth a proxy into play the living life because our minds have been changed by the scriptures in such a way that we live together and process this stuff together. So I hope that we're doing those two things but and when I will We do those two things, at least for me, what I find is that the Lord injects by the power of the Holy Spirit by the right source of the Scriptures, and the moving of the Holy Spirit, this excitement for who he is and what he's done. And then that changes how I behave, it literally changes how I act. So I hope that others are experiencing it. That would be my challenge is go out and do those two things. Get involved. Be a part of the people of God. worship together, study the Scriptures together, live together, text each other throughout the week, being go and do be and go be the church. Yeah. Be the church.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:36
That's Jesus.

Tony Arsenal 1:04:39
Yeah, yeah. Well, that I think that's probably a good note to end on. Everybody, make sure you go check out confessional web. com. There's some great reform brotherhood merchandise. We need to get on a shirt that says that's Jesus. You can get a limited edition reformed brotherhood beer Stein for just another week or two. So go pick one I ended up People and until next time Jesse, honor everyone. Love the Brotherhood.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai