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Tony and Jesse continue their series in the Prophet Micah.

Jesse Schwamb
Welcome to Episode 164 of the reformed brotherhood. I'm Jesse.

Tony Arsenal
And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast that's like oil running down on the beard of Aaron.

They just do better and better. Hey, brother.

Jesse Schwamb
So this idea to change the opening is just straight brilliant and it's getting better every week.

Tony Arsenal
I'm excited about this. You guys out there and reform brotherhood dumb or whatever you want to call it. We you know, we don't have a name for our fan base. I mean, I guess we just call them the Brotherhood. Send us your taglines, we want them will use them and we want them so send them in, hit him on Twitter or send them in the email. But we would love some, some grassroots taglines.

Jesse Schwamb
And at the risk of sounding like every prosperity gospel teacher, the only thing better than taglines is money. And I want to say thank you to some brothers and sisters who continue to give to us and especially our brother Mike, who actually just increased his monthly pledge to the podcast. I'm so grateful for that. Like we said before, your first responsibility should always be of course to your local church. And if you're willing to give them above and beyond that, and you decide by seeking the mind of God that through a foreign brotherhood podcast is part of your giving. We are so grateful and are willing to accept those funds because we can put them to use here to cover all of our incidental expenses. So thank you, Mike. I really appreciate that.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah, you know, we're recording this is the Sunday after Thanksgiving and keeping with our Puritan roots. We we don't do anything abnormal on the podcast we just same thing every week. No holidays. No special episodes can stop but I'm very grateful for our audience and for, especially for those who support the show. Because, you know, we have a lot of things we want to do with this show a lot of different ideas and a lot of concepts we want to build. And you know, sometimes that takes a little bit of money. So we appreciate the support, we appreciate that we don't have to fund this ourselves, really is something that I think, is community driven. Now, like it, we try, we set out on this to build a podcast. And very quickly, we realized we wanted to build more than just a podcast, but we really wanted to build a community and it really has become that. So thank you so much for all your generosity.

Jesse Schwamb
And if you're interested in finding out how you might be able to give logistically, if you just go to our webpage reform, brotherhood calm. In the upper right hand corner, there's a link to Patreon, which is what we use. So if you want to make a one time gift or recurring gift, we're just thankful for anything that you're willing to send our way. So thank you.

Tony Arsenal
Yep, absolutely, Jesse. Although that was like this supreme affirmation. Why don't we do some affirmations and denials?

Jesse Schwamb
Yes, let's do it. So you started saying This week,

Tony Arsenal
so it's about time for us to talk about something called spirit and truth. So yeah, this is a been a long time coming so less lamphere, who I think it is not an exaggeration to say, is the father Abraham, of the reform podcasting nation. Really kind of all of the shows that take this sort of to lay persons talking about theology format, really started with the reform podcast, and less just finished his movie. Those who were Kickstarter supporters, just got there early access, Ashley and I watched it yesterday and it was phenomenal. It was really, really good. So it comes out officially on the 14th of December. You can get it pretty much anywhere you can buy digital movies, and you know, less, worked really hard on this. And he has in a very real sense, given up other sorts of job opportunities to continue to make these really educational winsome, and I think important movies, you know less, less if you follow his personal story kind of started out as like your typical young reform restless guy and he very quickly grew into a confessional, mature, reformed thinker. And you know, I've been really influenced by him and his movies, both Calvinists, which was phenomenal and spirit and truth, really serve as a way to take kind of that young, restless reformed, you know, four or five point Calvinist, what's the Westminster Confession kind of people and really bring them into a more fully orbed confessional ism. So in a very significant way, the aim and the goal of his movies or his films is the same as this podcast is that we want to, we want to take people who are curious about Reformed theology or starting to learn about the Reformed theology, and we want to move to a more fully throated confessional reformed position and practice Empire. And this movie really is about reformed piety and reformed worship. And what I thought was really great you and I've talked about this on the show, he doesn't even talk about musical worship until like, like 45 minutes into the hour and a half long movie. And it's in the context of basically like, this is one component of worship. So check it out spirit and truth, you can pick it up just about anywhere. I know less would appreciate if you if you picked it up and purchase it. And I think it's just a really phenomenal movie to share with your non reformed non Calvinist friends who maybe think you're a little bit weird because you don't get super excited about Christmas, or that you're a little bit strange because you don't want to go to the basketball game with them or the football game with them on Sunday. You know, it's really helpful way to kind of introduce them to this reformed perspective on what it means to to worship God and what that demands and also what the blessings have it are.

Jesse Schwamb
These are going to be great pieces of media to have in your library. So you pulled them out from time to time or like you said, share them with people or better yet invite people over and watch them together. Yeah, talk about what you've just seen. So while everybody's waiting for that one to officially release, I definitely would echo what you said, go out and look up Calvinist that is less first documentary. And I think it's a wonderful foray into understanding some of the doctrines and theology behind Calvinism, and also kind of pulling away some of the harsh veneer. Some people have been influenced by that through theology in a way that's been overtly negative. And so the idea of a Calvinist carries a really pejorative connotation. And I think what less does is but it's a really wonderful introduction to the biblical truths behind it, stripping away some of all of that negativity that follows just with the behavior and the outward can somehow espouse that view, but have not done it particularly well or biblically. Yeah, so it's, again, the Greek I think, even if you are a foreign person, get it because we just love it. It's entertaining. It's funny, and it's actually just a delight to watch and then Sounds strange because it's a documentary about theology. And the great thing about it is just like this next one coming up. It's not necessarily narrated strictly by less. So what you have is this, like, wonderful group of voices, these really biblical men and women speaking into the subject matter. And so you're getting this perspective, from all these articulate Bible based experts and theologians. It's just like you're getting sit in this wonderful panel and just kind of imbibe all this amazing theology. So it's, it really is a unique mix. It's entertaining, it's educational, it's fun, I think you're going to leave it feeling encouraged. So definitely take out Calvinists, which is already out. And then spirit and truth which is coming. These again, the kind of research I think you weren't, like tuck away. You have to, like, have people over and just super lame, but it's actually good enough. But I think you can invite people over, and they'll be suspicious about what you want us to watch a Calvinist documentary deck. Yeah, I do. And then they'll be like, wow, this is the best thing I've ever seen. I love God.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the the Yeah, not at all. I mean, that was my response to Calvinist. The film is broken up into like segments. So if if you've seen Calvinist, the style, and the, the sort of the way that the movie unfolds is very similar in spirit and truth. But it's broken up into the segments that actually would make really good individual Sunday school lessons. So you can take Calvinist, if you get it on DVD or experienced truth on DVD, I'm sure that it's broken into chapters I watched on digital downloads, I don't have like fancy menu and stuff it is, but it's broken down into these chapters that you could play one for each one. And what I thought was really, really effective about Calvinists, and then also spirit and truth. It's actually a really good presentation of the gospel itself. And in spirit and truth, I was actually kind of surprised at how clear the gospel element of being called to worship Christ and the fact that we worship Christ in spirit and truth in faith and that's what God demands that gospel element. Loud and clear. So it would even be a great way to introduce your non Christian friends to the gospel. I mean, if you can get your non Christian friends to sit down and watch a documentary about worship, then you're already doing something right in your evangelism. But the Calvinist is probably easier because a lot of times, people are curious about this sort of weird thing. And even in really broadly secular circles where people don't know much about the Bible. They've probably heard something about Calvinism, because it has been such a big deal in like the last 10 years. And it was on the cover of like, famous magazines as like the most important significant movement in America. So it really is a great film, pick it up spirit and truth. You can get it at I think you can probably get it through missional where he distributes it there. You can pick it up, I'm sure there's a website. I don't have it in front of me, because we don't prepare for this stuff. But it's it's phenomenal. You'll you'll be blessed by it. And it's really just a great way to show how important it is. support this stuff is just to support it. And we really do. I love I love last. He's a personal friend. He's meant so much to me chat kind of in developing this podcast, being involved in the reform pub. And I just wish him all the best. I can't wait to see what the next film he's going to make is because I'm sure that whatever he decides to do, it's going to be phenomenal and successful. No doubt. Right. What are you affirming, Jesse?

Jesse Schwamb
I want to stay on this media theme that we've got going All right, let's do it effectively. And I am going to firm with a book called Here I stand a life of Martin Luther by Roland h Banton. So this is something I've been wanting to read for a while, finally got around to reading it, and was super enjoyable. So if you're looking for a good biography of Luther one that's approachable. So you'll feel like you're just getting kind of weighted down or way down rather with, you know, all the complexities of his life. This is a wonderful tome. And what Benton does really well is he's just a fun, great writer. So his turn of phrase is great. He'll say things that are just amazingly well articulated. And then at times he also kind of has a sarcastic biting wit. So like one of my favorite parts in this book is he's really giving you some context into just the severity of the process of indulgences in the medieval church in the Catholic Church, and how this was really a fundraising mechanism that was absolutely ubiquitous. And so he he's just says, almost off the cuff. You know, we we speak sometimes in this modern age, about different fundraisers razors, one of those being like bingo style. Yeah. And just like in the middle of his classification of what indulgences are, and again, speaking about how they were used, he just says, indulgences. Were the bingo of the middle here. I just think that's hilarious. Yeah, obviously did not translate well. Yes, podcast, but it's hilarious on paper. So it's great. So let me read just like one little thing about I think this is so good about how he encapsulates his life, but this is the kind of turn of phrase you can expect from him, and just an amazing treatment of Luther. So here's what he says only about 70 pages and he writes, Karl Barth set of his own unexpected emergence as a reformer could equally be said of Luther. That he was like a man clam climbing in the darkness of a winding staircase in the steeple of an ancient Cathedral. In the blackness he reached out to study himself, and his hand laid hold of a rope. He was startled to hear the clanging of a bell. I mean, what a beautiful way that's his way of kind of like speaking throughout this book. So definitely if you're looking for something want to understand Luther better, and I think all of his unvarnished truth about who he was as a person, but also that doesn't I say, uplift him in such a way where he's held on a pedestal unreasonably. Here I stand by Rowan h Banton is a really good treatment. So it's worth the read. This will be the good kind of thing to read, you know, during this holiday season, I think.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the life of Luther is such an important picture of kind of the life of every Christian is Luther really was kind of stumbling around in the darkness and almost No intention ality or understanding of his own he kind of stumbled into the light and and we know obviously looking back that it was God who was dragging him forward into the light. But it really is a good almost like a parable of all of our lives right that we you know before we knew Christ before we were regenerated by the Holy Spirit, we were just wandering around in the darkness and didn't know what we were doing. And then all of a sudden it was like we woke up one day and realized how glorious God was. And that really is I mean, you know, there's a little bit of like an apocryphal understanding of Luther where like, he was this radical person who intended to overthrow the church and you know, he he saw himself as standing against the whole world. And that's just not reality like Luther. Exactly, even even with the 95 theses like there's nothing actually all that distinctively Protestant about the 95 theses. It really is a process that he goes Through over the next several years after that, that shapes him into the reformer that he became. And so a good biography. I haven't read this one, but I've heard phenomenal things about it. A good biography will really help you understand that. And that will help you to understand your own life as a Christian, as it kind of follows that same pattern.

Jesse Schwamb
And this is a good way of describing what happens in this book because it's not just about entirely him. It really author kind of draws you into your own spiritual journey by reflecting it against what happened to Luther. Yeah. And there's just so much stuff in here. That's it's both equal parts, educational, get a sense of Catholic theology, and what Luther was really up against, so get a sense of the politics of the time and how the church influence that you'll get a sense of Luther as both the husband and a father, and then there's just parts of it are just straight up. Fun, because we've joked in this podcast about how, if you want to get away with quoting Luther or you want just make up a quote from Luther just referenced Table Talk, which is that place where all these quotations that are A derivative taken from his students where he's literally eating with them. And they're discussing theology. And this book has, I would say, about two or three pages of just going through and referencing some of the more interesting and hilarious things that are attributed to Table Talk at least more reasonably. So. Yeah, just great. Because he, what I like about loose Luthor is he's a bit feisty, you know, I kind of dig that he's a bit feisty. And so I think we could use some of that passion for God, because here's a god guy that was feisty, but it was because he was so deeply and passionately concerned and undone by God's holiness. Yeah, that it actually changed how he thought and how he behaved. And so he is really a remarkable example in that way, and somebody that we should uphold them look to to say, I want to have that kind of viewpoint when it comes toward God. Yeah. So there's a lot here that just really loved it. So I can't recognize recommend it highly enough. So go check that out. I'm affirming with it this week.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah, you know, could you imagine what Luther would be like in an era where Twitter was a thing? It would be amazing.

Jesse Schwamb
He would destroy it. Like, you'd be amazing.

Tony Arsenal
I know, it would be like this weird combination of like, Donald Trump and Carl Truman, I think it'd be like this merge between the two, where it'd be like really clever theological wit. But then no filter whatsoever. Not that Carl Truman has all that much of a filter, but right, like it would just be it would be phenomenal, it'd be great.

Jesse Schwamb
And that's one of the things that you get in this where you get to see a little bit this insight into the fact that when you and I, for instance, we speak about these guys, these gentlemen, these are farmers. I think when we do that, we're both admitting that they are still men. Yeah. So because of that, they're going to have all these rough edges. So it's not like we're condoning every piece of behavior, everything that ever said or every act that they undertook. And so some of that is kind of wonderful to read all these kind of rough edges and to see them in reflected in his life. So there's a part in the book where it's kind of speaking about the fact that he was Husband, of course and a father and being a husband and a father is difficult just like being a wife and a mother. Yeah. And so what during one of these tabletop set sessions, it's evidently reported that his wife interrupted the conversation because it was something like simple like she wanted to know, like, how long was going to go on or wanting to pass the potatoes or something. And he's reported as saying, like, man, I really wish that my wife had to say the Lord's prayer before she interjected in my conversation. So like, obviously, he was a man of short patience. He was one as well that was just as sinful as your eye. And yet, this shows the great lengths that God will go to to use a person who is completely sold out to him. Yes, completely given himself over to him. So it's, I just love reading these kind of biographies because it doesn't pull any punches. It shows both sides. And the end of the day, I think if you walk away saying, Man, God is so good. Yeah. As imperfect people. And if you can use Calvin if you can use Luther, if you can use swingley Why not? me. So I just think it's super encouraging.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah. Yeah. Why don't we use some denials? Why don't we flip this up and have you do your denial first?

Jesse Schwamb
Okay, let's do that. So this is going to be possibly a trigger for some people, but I'm just willing to go there. And we're about to enter what many people don't as the under Christmas time season. And so I want to deny something very specifically, I'm not denying against Christmas music because my love for Christmas music I think has been widely known. I've shared that on this podcast and affirmed that. So I'm going in with like, surgical like precision after one song, and I'm denying against the Little Drummer Boy. And the reason is because I've just never understood what's happening here. So I actually looked this up because it was so vexing me that I wanted to understand if my response was unmeasured toward this song. It's possible it still is, but the more I looked up, the more I was like, Yeah, I just like this even more. I just don't like the Pump Pump thing, the lyrics are a little bit strange to me. So apparently this thing was originally known as the Carol of the drum. And it was only written recently I didn't know that it was first recorded just in 1951. So it's fairly recent. But apparently, what I was able to find out is that the whole story of the song or what supposed to represent is, you have a poor young boy, and he summoned by the Magi to Nativity of Christ. So I've issue with that whole thing to begin with, but we'll set that aside, that he doesn't have a gift. So for whatever reason, he decides the best gift that he can bring is the fact that he has a drum. He's going to play that drum. And according to the song, he plays it with great approval from Jesus Mother Mary, saying that I played with for him my best, and then the baby smiled at me. I just can't get behind this song because now there's so many like, biblical things that don't make any sense to me. I noticed. being like, we need a drummer, or we need this little boy Come Come with us and obviously They're not showing up with activity. So all that aside, I'm also just like, physically speaking, babies this small, cannot smile for reason. Yeah, and the sense of like, they're not reacting to their external environment and seeing some of the policemen and smiling. If they're smiling, it's likely because like, they're just bloated and they have gas. So maybe that's part of the funniness of the song is that he misinterpreted the smile. But then this is how this is how I'm taking this how deep I'm going with this because it makes me so much. Then I get into this weird like dosage ism range, though with this where I'm like, Wait a second. So we're saying that if he could smile, because he's seeing the drum and hearing the drum and the jump pleases Jesus as the small infant child, and then he's able to respond to an ornament or let's say, like, beyond human way, then now he's not a human child. So I want to deny this all over the place. So you tell me too far in my analysis, I don't

Tony Arsenal
think you have. But here's what's always struck me about this. You know, I've never been around a woman who just gave birth, but I can imagine that the last thing that they want is some kids drama. Well, their newborn baby tries to sleep. Right? So that you know other Christmas song triggers me a little bit is the song do you hear what I hear? You know? Yes. And particularly the line, said the shepherd boy to the mighty king. Do you know what I know? In your palace wall mighty king? Do you know what I know? A child a child shivers in the cold. Let us bring him silver and gold. First of all, why is the shepherd boy proposing that they bring silver and gold the shepherd boy doesn't have any gold. And second of all, that King is Herod so that that shepherd boy, he's dead now. Like the song doesn't make any sense. So it's like the people who write the songs are like, and maybe this is probably literally true. Like, they know enough about the Christmas story to have like these themes like, like Mary Jane, like the king like these things silver and gold, like they have these themes. But you can tell by the fact that these songs make no sense whatsoever that they really don't understand even just the basics of the biblical story.

Jesse Schwamb
You're right about that. Like there's some stuff in here that's noble, this idea of wanting to bring riches to express, you know, honor to a king, or in this case with a Little Drummer Boy, knowing that you have nothing to give and you're trying to give you the best of what you have yourself your own talents and abilities like okay, we're totally down with that. Yeah, I just think everything else is nonsensical. And I think there might be some like latent heresy embedded. Yeah. So

Tony Arsenal
yeah, you know, if I was the Little Drummer Boy, I would have been like, you know what I'm going to give to Jesus. I'm going to give him some peace and quiet because he was just born and I'm His mother doesn't want me pounded on this drum in in this little manger cave thing.

Jesse Schwamb
Oh, that's so funny. I mean people are going to get like all up in arms about the no crying he makes lyric then this he smiled at me thing. Yeah, I was like equally weird. It's just weird.

Tony Arsenal
It definitely is you're not wrong.

Jesse Schwamb
It's just it's just strange. Alright, so get me out of this funk that I mean with this song, what do you deny?

Tony Arsenal
So I'm going to trigger people, I think on a different vector. So I'm not going to get into all of the details. But what I'm denying and I'm sure that by the time people are listening to this, they will know what situation I'm referring to. I'm denying internet slander. So there is a situation going on and it's not a it's not an utterly unique situation. Where one one I don't want to call them popular but one active YouTube podcast Christian Dude out there is like actively slandering and aggressively attacking another, like Christian figure on in the world. And you know, I never understood this, I've been the object of a fair amount of internet, aggression and slander. And you know, for the most part, you can kind of just brush it off because you're like, these are just brand new people. But it does get to you and it does hurt a little bit. And sure, you know, like, why are we like this? Like, why? Why are we like this? I don't understand. Like, sometimes it's jealousy, sometimes its pride. But sometimes I just don't understand why why people get the way they do online. And I'm just denying the fact that we sometimes we forget, when we're interacting online or whether it's interacting in a Facebook group or on Twitter or whether it's kind of the weird interaction that sometimes happens between podcasts or It says they kind of like respond to each other on their show their various shows. Like sometimes I think we forget that we're dealing with real people who have real emotions and real lives and real feeling so, you know, I just I will deny that all day and twice on the Lord's day it just be Christians out there people like stop slandering people slot stop spreading lies and gossip and stop saying unholy ungodly things about other people. Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean that the ninth commandment doesn't apply anymore.

Jesse Schwamb
Right? You're right, the internet is really some of the ways that I view it is it's this great experiments and pulling down appropriate barriers of accountability to see the fullest extent of our sinfulness with human interaction. Yeah. And so you see this especially of course, among those who exhibit less restraint, many non believers, but then even in the realm of believers. There is so much about the internet that evokes our sinful behaviors. Yeah. And so instead of looking at what our oftentimes we feel like our anonymous or disconnected people almost we make them ideals make them care creatures. We do not have what Christ has when he sees the crowds that are harassed and help us he has compassion. Yeah, there is just a lack of compassion online or normative or default response, is it not to bring graciousness, often to a conversation, but straight like to just lambaste to become attacking? And especially where we feel like we ought to have right to do that is the space in which the Christian differentiates themselves from everywhere their person by saying, I have no, right. I'm constrained by love of Christ, right to honor and to have reasonable dialogue. I think that's the kind of thing that people seen and says, Well, that's miraculous. Yeah, well, that can actually interact online in a reasonable way. Among what seems like reasonable points of differentiation. That is something that is unique. So the internet is just like this. Great. The whole trope is, here's a place where the anonymity and the protection allows you to really embrace your sinfulness. And it's so easy to do.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and and there's this weird phenomena that happens to I like that you kind of talk about the internet, like, it's still an experiment because we're still, in the grand scheme of things. We're still very, it's very new, it's very early in the development of, of what it's going to be. And, you know, in previous generations, like in order to interact with someone you had to know physically where to find them, you had to be able to like track down their phone number or find them in a phone book. If you want it you know, if you think back to like the first five centuries of the church, like bishops had to know which congregation other bishops they were interacting with, like, where to send a letter to. And what I've noticed is that online, people don't talk about like which church they go to, they don't talk about where their membership is. So if you were in a situation where you needed to seek the remedial, of the local church through the Matthew 18 process. A lot of times there's not even a vector for you to do that. You're not even able to pursue church discipline or church, church mediation the way that the Bible calls us to, because the person you're talking to online, they have to voluntarily tell you who their pastor is, and how to get over them for you to do that. And a lot of times, that's not forthcoming. So I just think it's important as we interact online, to be honest and have integrity with each other. Like sometimes, you know, when I get into conflict online, sometimes they'll say like, this is the church I go to, here's the website for the church, the contact information for my pastor is accessible. If you feel like you need to get in touch with him. If you feel like I've sinned against you, and I'm not listening to you, then here's the website for my church. Like I'm transparent about that. But what I've noticed is a lot of times some of these internet feuds that happened or these internet conflicts that happen That level of honesty and integrity about where a person where the accountability to the local church that person is, that's not there. And it's frustrating at times, because that leaves someone like me or not that you get in conflicts on the internet all that often. But someone like me or you who wants to follow the biblical precedent, sometimes we have to, like, be public about what's going on, because we don't have the option of going to the local church that this person is a part of. So it has to be kind of presented to the whole church at large for kind of public review, because that person has not given us the information we need to pursue that initial step of going to that person's pastor. And it's hard because sometimes that seems like you're not dragging something out into the open that that should have been kept private. But in reality, you're doing what you need to do because that person has not allowed you to keep it in private because they have not voluntarily told you who they are. accountable to in terms of pastoral oversight. So it's just a tough situation out there. And like I said, by the time this airs, all of all of what I'm talking about will probably be familiar to our audience. I'm sorry to be vague about it. But it's frustrating to see when it happens. It really is a difficult thing. That is, I think, kind of a new unique situation that Christianity, Western Christianity, I think Christians in China don't really care about what's going on in the internet. They're just focusing on not getting arrested and, and murder for their face. So it's kind of like a first world problems kind of a thing. But it's a new challenge that we haven't had to face that much in the history of the churches. What do you do with the apparent anonymity and the ability to hide where it is that you worship and who it is that you're accountable to? How do we handle that?

Jesse Schwamb
It's not just this sense of accountability. But in my estimation, here's something that's really strange about the internet that we've we've just adopted because it changed and moved in so quickly, and we haven't often had time to really metabolizing process what we're doing but think of it this way. In the past, if you are a person that had any kind of public influence, that is your ideas, your thoughts, either written or spoken, were being broadcast to people that you didn't know. Right? Usually that came with some sense of responsibility or training. So the like, the thing I can think of as an example of top my head is, like, let's take like the the British royalty, because my wife is like knee deep in the crown whenever the new season of that show. And so you have a responsibility, this monarchy to interact to speak, and they're trained to all their lives, at least, to reset in some way to exhibit certain characteristics, especially in the public eye, how they look how they behave, how they act. What we have in the internet is, whereas now there were in the past personal brands that could be attributed only to let's say, those have some sense of notoriety because they had gained that notoriety right, right or wrong. Now, the notoriety has been democratized. And then Everybody can have a brand, every Facebook page is essentially a person's own brand, right. And so that means that they can come into the public sphere and say all kinds of things without respect to even just trying to understand how someone might really need to behave in the public sphere. And as Christians, we're just as susceptible to this. Because as human beings, our pride is automatically connected to a sense of personal branding. Yeah. And so it's very easy to go on the attack on somebody else's brand, and to basically disassociate or divorce the person and the loving kindness from this idea that we're just all brands interacting online. And some brands are better than other brands. And so therefore, I can come in and destroy one. Because at when I do that, it makes my brand more popular or it makes me look better. Yeah. And so I think there's just so much of our own sinful nature that gravitates toward this new identity and we're still as I am finding new ways to think about what's actually happening. So in my estimation, it is still a really a grand experiment. Yeah, because it's constantly changing and evolving. And in some ways we're given. I mean, we've talked about this before to like this idea that you can go into Facebook, and in some ways you're taking on, or at least, I would say, like inadvertently getting this kind of omniscient focus, because now you're able to see things from all over the world. It's not just Facebook, but online generally. And so you can get worried and concentrate and focus on things that are far beyond your community, when oftentimes our own community needs help. And that's the place we would have been focused before but we have access to information allows us to get distracted with so many different things. So there's, there's this immense need for balance, there's the need for love. And the Christian, the one that's regenerated, the transformed heart is really the only one that can come in and bring restore to power by the grace of God into the sphere of the internet. the interwebs need that yes, I love when I see people like Nate pick away it's like you, others interacting and Twitter and Facebook and really making that The priority. I think that in many ways makes God look glorious. Yes, I'd love to see that happening.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah, that's the hardest part though is like it's so hard to interact on Twitter, or Facebook, Twitter more than Facebook, but Facebook to like, it's really hard to interact in a way that is God honoring, like, that's almost like the platforms are designed for for quick impressions and hot takes. I mean, they are designed for that, right? It's not like they're like, yeah, they are designed for that. So to be able to use those in a way that's thoughtful, and presents your your interlocutor your opponent's view, faithfully, and honestly, like, it's really hard to do that. And it's so easy to think that you can just throw something out there into the internet and then act like it never happened. But it really it really can be damaging and very harmful to a person who's kind of the target of that. So yeah, it's I'll deny internet slander and gossip and aggression. All day long.

Jesse Schwamb
So speaking of hot takes in the opposite thereof.

Tony Arsenal
That was like that's an amazing transition. I like waiting with bated breath on how like the next part of that sentence, and how you're going to connect this to Mike afore?

Jesse Schwamb
Well, we're back into the Micah series, Micah cast, if you will. And we're finishing up chapter four. And we're heading into just just waiting in to chapter five. Yes. And I figured this is like what is better than us talking about this? Because I'm sure it's like the opposite of the hot topic. We're going to go to the scriptures. We have regional people listening to this podcast, we're going to weigh out the scriptures together and see what the Lord has for us in this chapter. And it seems like we're on a string right now of where we get into some like really good at least I think as far as you and I are concerned, affirmations, denials, and then we just get like rockin on those.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they've been long but I nobody's been complaining. Nobody's know it's not like reform programs are like consider this. Consider shorter affirmations and denials.

Jesse Schwamb
Well, let's get into Micah, end of chapter four. Do you have those beautiful verses in front of you to read for us?

Tony Arsenal
I do. So we're going to start in verse eight. It says, and you O tower of the flock, hill of the daughter of Zion to you shall it come, the former Dominion shall come kingship for the daughter of Jerusalem. Now why do you cry aloud? Is there no king in you has your counselor perished? That pain sees you like a woman in labor, rise and groan Oh daughter of Zion like a woman in labor. For now you shall go out from the city and dwell in the open country, you shall go to Babylon. There you shall be rescued. There the Lord will redeem you from the hand of your enemies. Now many nations are assembled against you saying let her be defiled and let her eyes gaze upon Zion, but they do Do not know the thoughts of the Lord. They do not understand his plan, that he has gathered them as sheaves to the threshing floor. Arise and thrash Oh daughter of Zion, for I will make your horn iron and I will make your hooves bronze. I will you shall be in pieces many peoples and shall devote their gain to the Lord, their wealth to the Lord of the whole earth. chapter five verse one now muster your troops Oh Daughter of troops. siege is laid against us with the rod. They strike the judge of Israel on the cheek.

Jesse Schwamb
Boom. So there's like so much Yeah, amazing tension in these verses. And I love it because there's almost an inflection point. We have Mike is prophecy is moving in this direction where it's explaining that Israel's present distress this now versus 911 is going to bring some kind of glorious salvation, the liberation from the later Babylonian exile, and then release from snap groups synack ribs, siege so we have the miserable claim. views of the people or even this complete ruin that's been talked about here. This is not going to prevent God from restoring his church with strength, splendor and power. So before we started podcasting this episode, or just recording it if that's I don't know podcasting is a verb. I'd said that I was I was pretty fired up about this passage and I really am so I don't want to get like too fired up too soon. I want to be like a slow burn. So let's start off like within the beginning of this up like with this whole like tower of the flock thing. How do you see that? Well, the tower the flock he's talking about here.

Tony Arsenal
I mean, I have to admit, you know, reading through the commentaries and reading this passage several times, I kind of walked away scratching my head if I'm being really honest, this was this was a more difficult than the rest of the stuff. We've gone through passage. I had a tough time even knowing where to start. But you know, the commentators that I've read, some of them saw this tower of the flock hill of the design side and very positive light and some of them actually In almost a negative light. So I honestly I'm not sure I mean, I think, you know, the the problem here that we have is there's this mixture of positive and negative language, right? The the idea of power of the flock, the hill of the daughter of Zion. That's a positive concept, right? It's this, this this image of prominence and this image of sort of visibility and of prosperity, right, the Tower of the flock has to do with this idea that that there's the flock of Israel. And then there's the tower in the midst of it. It's this sort of mixed metaphor, but it's this idea of this central feature that everybody can see, or the hill of the daughter of Zion, right? We talked about how hills are really important. But then there's like this ricourt rhetorical question of like, Is there no king in you? There's this huge shock to you shall it come? The former Dominion shall come kingship for the daughters of Jerusalem. So it's it's looking forward to to a stage where the dominion and the glory of the Davidic kingdom that that Israel once had, will come again. But it's not here yet. So there's this, this mixture of positive and negative that I think makes the passage really difficult to interpret.

Jesse Schwamb
I agree, I think that we should be unsettled when we read or hear this because it what he's talking about here is beauty and pain, there's a loss, and there's a gain, right? There's this like a woman in labor. And so that's what's really got me fired up as I've thought about this this week, because on the one hand, we have this promise of the glories of the spiritual Jerusalem, the Gospel Church, which is that tower of the flock that one fold in which all the sheep of Christ are protected under one shepherd. And there's both this literal structure to it in terms of the Babylonian exile and then the spiritual understanding as we read it now. At the same time, there's this pain of judgment, what you just spoke about, it's manifested in a literal exile of getting out of being pushed out of the place of Your own home, the loss of King and land, for the remnant must proceed the birth of the Messianic age that will Yeah. And that's the thing that was really impacting me as I read this, because to Zion and Jerusalem that is like that tower of the flock to the nation of the Jews came the first dominion. That's where the kingdom of Christ was first set up the gospel, the kingdom was first preached there Christ was first called the King of the Jews. And so this tension, I think, is between the facts that God is saying, there is something beautiful that's going to come out of this, but it will be born from pain. And that's illustrated by this prediction of the calamities of the literal Jerusalem, to which some favor and relief will be granted. And it's a type and a figure of what God could do and will do for the church in the last days. Yeah. And so that's the thing that I've been really been mulling over because what I find brilliant about God's work is that in the bringing of Jesus Christ into this world, this Sun that is given. Now the sun that's born but the sun that is given a pre exists, we have one who is touching all of humanity, but he's not merely using pain and, and disaster as a means to an end, but is so categorically redefining it by taking upon himself though he does not deserve it because there's a consequence of sin, which is sin lists. But in redefining he takes, takes basically all of these just said this way bad things that happen. And whereas they being a category onto their own where they are useless, and not only makes them useful, but he reads the redefines him as glory making. Yeah, that's what I get blown away by in this passage.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah, you know, this really is I can't find the quote off top my head but in Calvin's commentary, he basically makes the point that like sometimes God allows us to be laid low, in order for us to then build us up and to to elevate us in the future. And so I think, you know, in this passage, it's one of those passages that's hard to understand and hard to read. Because it's so contrary to kind of our everyday understanding, right? Even even post regeneration, we still have this sort of like, works reward principle that we instinctively operate by like a person who's going to do really well. Like if God wants to bless that person, then they should be expecting to see prosperity and everything at work should go great and their marriage should be awesome and their kids should be well behaved and you know, they should drive a nice car and they should never get any speeding tickets. And in reality, like God sometimes lays us out flat, to be able to show us the depth of our own sin, till to show us the glory of His salvation in a way that I don't think we understand. And I think, you know, the Jews going into exile the Hebrews going into exile. For them to look at that and then to say like yet shall there be a kingdom for us in the future? right that the Prophet here is kind of rhetorically saying like you cry aloud, is there no kicking you as your counselor perished? And then he says, rather than grown, but the point of this is not to say like, yeah, life is going to suck just for the sake of life sucking. But in verse 10, the point of it is there You shall be rescued. There the Lord redeemed me from the hand of your enemies. So it's not that God rescues and redeems us, right? Jesus says, He, the physician doesn't come for the healthy body comes for the sick, right? So it's not as though God is going to rescue us from great circumstances. He's going to sometimes allow us to fall into terrible tragic situations in order to show us how glorious his rescue actually is.

Jesse Schwamb
And the example there with respect to a physician is a really good one because Because we're in the era in which we live, I sometimes think that we do not think enough that medicine and especially surgery is absolutely insane.

Unknown Speaker
Yes.

Jesse Schwamb
What somebody is literally saying to you is like, I know you have a problem in your body. So here's we're going to do, I'm actually going to inflict a wound upon you, under your volition. Yeah. And I'm going to go in, gonna mess some things up, gonna do some cutting, take some things out, put some things in, and then I'm going to try to bind up the wound. And trust me, you're going to be better off when I'm done them before we've just started here. Yeah. And so it's exactly the kind of thing that God's you're talking about here is that's that's what amazes me is God isn't just saying, because I think sometimes as Christians, we fall into this kind of trope where we say things like, Well, God can use that thing. God can redeem the pain. God can take a hard situation and turn it around. And what we're actually seeing here is something far deeper. It's not that God takes something that's unfortunate, and then uses it to make something fortunate. God makes the thing that is unfortunate. Yeah makes it fortunate. Yes, exactly. And that's the thing that I think is totally radical and unique to the Christian worldview because the prophecy that's being spoken up here moves from this present distressed, the Messiah is coming and victory and that victory in the coming must happen through pain and disappointment. So the promises of God are fulfilled in and through suffering. The nation should not indulge itself, as Mike is saying here in some kind of grief or pity party, because for through the things that are bad, those things are going to end up ending. Well, Israel's pains are great, but they are like those of a woman and exertion. The labors are to bring forth a child. So in other words, what's amazing about this example here is Jerusalem's pains are not dying. acnes is not just somebody who's on the side of the road, who has no hope, but the pain is going to bring forth a child and though you and I, one don't have children and two can never bear children. I think we're familiar at least acquainted from a distance seemed Children in the wild, if you will, that there is a joy in parents, especially mothers, there's a unique joy in receiving a child from God physically. And that joy is so strong, that many women are willing to go back for more. Yeah, even though childbirth is insanely painful, even if and even if you're able to do it in the modern context of all that medicine can afford in terms of pain management. And so I'm just blown away by the way that God doesn't just use pain, he radically redefines it. And he takes something the pain and the discomfort is not part of God's original Kingdom as we understand it in the garden, of course. And so Jesus comes to asou this pain, because it is unique to our condition as sinners, even though he does not deserve to bear it and then in the bearing of it. It's not just to like he says he reverses it, and somehow makes it palatable, he makes it good and so therefore even as we Experience intense pain, that we can come before the Lord knowing that when Jesus is born, and to that it is always for our good and for His glory. So I'm just like, I know can you hear that? I'm like, fired up about Yeah, but this message,

Tony Arsenal
you know, it's been a little while since we've gone to the catechisms. Because just do it the nature of the the topics we've been talking about. But you know, this really reminds me good catechetical theology is so important, because it It shapes the way that we think and understand who God is in a way that is so reasonable and logical. So, question seven of the shorter catechism Westminster shorter catechism. What are the decrees of God? The decrees of God are His eternal purpose, according to the council was will whereby for his own glory, he asked for gain whatsoever comes to pass. Question eight How does God execute his decrees? Answer God executes his decrees in the world. and creation of creation and Providence, and then jump down to question 11 What are God's works of Providence, God's works Providence are his most holy, wise and powerful preserving and governing all his creatures and all his actions. So if we reverse engineer that a little bit, what that means is that that terrible event, whatever it might be, right, we don't have to come up with specifics, but that that event that feels really terrible, that you you walk out of that and you're like, man, I really wish that didn't happen. That happened, because God governed all his creatures and their actions in order to bring about the execution of his decrees in this act of Providence or in this work of Providence, in order to that he might fulfill His eternal purpose according to the counsel of his will, for his own glory, which he for ordained to come to pass. Right. If you reverse engineer that, that is a recipe for assurance and comfort and contentment in all circumstances. Right when Paul says I have learned to be content in all circumstances, he's not talking about the fact that he didn't get what he wants for Christmas, right? He's not talking about the fact that his car broke down. He's talking about the fact that his kinsmen have abandoned him. everywhere he goes, people try to murder him. Even within the church. People are slandering and abusing and insulting and trying to undercut him, that he's probably lost his wife, there's a good reason for us to believe that Paul was married, he's probably lost his family. He's lost his reputation. He's lost, whatever wealth and whatever standing he had in Jewish society that he says he worked hard to achieve. That is where he's content. And I think when we read Micah here, what we have to understand is that God is not saying, Yeah, all this stuff is really bad. And I'm sorry that That it has to happen this way, but don't worry, it's going to be okay. I'm going to work some good out of it. So even though this sucks, it's not gonna suck. what God is saying is precisely the opposite of that is that these invaders who are going to come and are going to murder A lot of you, and are going to rape your wives and they're going to murder your children. And then this is, this is hard to get your head around. That is good, because God is governing it for the glory of his name and for the benefit of his people. So sometimes I think Armenians are just sort of generally evangelicals kind of throw at Calvinists. Well, you know, God, a God allows for a little child to be raped. Do you do you're saying that God did that? Yeah. Yeah, we are saying that God did that. Now. There's complex theology around exactly how God's involvement in that is, but will we know from the scriptures from Romans chapter eight, that all things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose. And it's not just that God takes those circumstances and realigns them for good. But God actively works all things for the good of his people according to His will, for his own glory and for their own good. And I just think sometimes as Calvinists, we kind of shy away from that, because we don't want to do the hard work of explaining, or we don't want it. We don't want to look like the monster who says that that tragedy that happened is actually done, according to God's will for his own glory for his on purpose. And that even though we don't understand how or why it's still good, because God is good, and God, whatever God does is good. And so we have to, rather than shy away from that have tried to explain it away. We actually have to press into that because that is what the Scriptures teach.

Jesse Schwamb
I don't want anybody to miss hear us and think that what we're saying here is that these things, painful things, loss of loved ones, conflicts in your life are easy. We're not saying that. We're not saying that because they occur that suddenly because we're saying, God has ordained them for our good and for His glory, that that somehow makes them easy to stand or to bear under, it makes it difficult. But here's the reason why it must be this way. If we claim as the Bible tells us, that God is sovereignly in control, that he is able to redeem all things, then he must be able to go up against the thing, which seems like it is the most worst in all the world that is beyond help that cannot be in any way possibly good. Yeah, and turn that thing around and redefine it so categorically that it gives him glory. And so that's why even Jesus Christ Himself, that salvation comes through suffering, the rescue came through suffering that we have a suffering savior who leads in close to all of the death and decay that we experience in our lives. And then destroys that very thing, right? It That must be the path. And so it's primarily because the minimum wages of sin is death and sin always brings death decay and chaos. And so we need one who can take those things and not really just again make them suitable toward a particular end. But make them good in and of themselves to display that one he is good and to the he is that powerful to do that he's the only one that can do that. And so here we have this literal Jerusalem who in my customer saying should come for herself with this that whatever straits she's gonna be reduced to it, the numbers are going to be reduced at the people themselves, that she will continue until the coming of the Messiah for their his kingdom must be set up, and she will not be destroyed while that blessing, the Messianic promise is within her. And that should be great comfort to us as well. And so I love that you brought up the Catechism because where I'm my mind was going with this is in this beautiful doctrine of reform. theology and the perseverance of the saints. And so I want to quote just briefly from that doctrine in the Westminster Confession which reads following, they who God had accepted in his beloved, affectionately called and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere there into the end, and be eternally saved. Or in other words, we believe that those who wants become true Christians cannot totally fall away and be lost. And that well, we all may fall into sin temporarily, we will eventually return to be saved. So those who have fled to Jesus, you know, and then we're talking about those not just you and I now, but those even in Micah's time, those who have fled to Jesus promise, the Messiah for refuge, have a firm foundation on which to build, though there's going to be floods of air that are going to delusion, Orlando Satan's going to rise up all the powers of the earth and all the iniquities of our own hearts against us. We will not fail. Yeah. But we're going to persevere to the end. And we're going to inherit those many mansions that have been prepared for us, in the end from the foundation of the world. Why? Because God has secured it, and he security often through a measurable pain. So it's amazing for me to think about in reflecting on this passage, that the saints in heaven, saints and saints in heaven, the saints in heaven are happier. But they're no more secure than are the true believers here as world. Yeah. And that's because of what God has secured. And part of that securing I think, even for our benefit to see has come through

Unknown Speaker
pain. Yeah,

Tony Arsenal
yeah. And you know, just so if anyone happens to be listening to this, who thinks that we're just reading this into the text? We're really not like it's right there on the surface of it here. So verse 11, says now many nations are assembled against you speaking to the people of Israel. saying let her be defiled and let our eyes gaze upon Zion. So the image here is basically like the the and this is a little graphic, but this is the Scripture, right? The image is a woman who has been captured in war, who's been stripped naked, has probably been violated, and the soldiers are looking upon her ravished body, and they're drying delight in the fact of what they've done to this woman. And then verse 12, says, So, so read the most humiliating, miserable, terrible thing that could happen to a person. And then verse 12, says, but they do not know the thoughts of the Lord. They do not understand his plan, that he has gathered them as sheaves to the threshing floor. So basically, what this is saying is that all of that stuff, all all of the terrible things that were about to happen to Israel, that we're going to reduce her to the the metaphor of a abuse battered raped woman who her victimizers were going to gloat over, they are reduced to sheaves at the threshing floor. And then verse 13, and here's the gospel in this. Arise, and thrash Oh Daughters of Zion, for I will make your horn iron I will make her whose bronze and you shall beat in pieces many people and shall devote their game to the Lord, their wealth to the Lord of the whole earth. So all of that all of that trauma, all of that victimization, all of that terrible things that come to Israel and and I think we can apply this to the church that come to God's people. All of that will be for our gain. And whatever prosperity it seems like these wicked, evil people have is actually going to be devoted to the Lord in some sense in the future. And here's, here's that quote out of Calvin that I was looking for. He says, God did not indeed restore at once his church, but a flip In her for a time, so that she deferred nothing from a dead man. As then a dead body lies on the ground without feeling so also did the church of god live prostrate. This is the reason why the Prophet now says, Arise daughter of Zion, as though God by his voice rouse the dead, for the proper remind us that there is no reason for the faithful holy to despair, when they find themselves cast out, for their restoration is in the hand and power of God, as it is the peculiar Office of God to raise the dead. And this same truth ought to be applied for our use. So when when we look, you know, one of the things as difficult about reading the profits is, it's hard sometimes to understand how the profits can be applied for our use. But in this right here, what we see is we see God's people being beat down, being cast aside being cast down to death, and then God commanding them to live and blessing them. And we're going to we're going to go into verse into chapter five next week. The gospel is so much bigger than just protect me from my enemies. It's so much bigger than just protect me from being abused and slandered and assaulted and killed. It's so much bigger than that. And that's where we go here verse, verse five, one now muster your troops o Daughters of troops sieges late against this with the rod, they strike the judge of Israel on the cheek. So this is this is where we get into next week, right? Who is the judge of Israel that gets struck on the cheek? It's Jesus. Right? Right. That's Jesus. Like that's our new tagline, like, honor everyone. That's Jesus. Right. So even in the midst of this, this prophecy of despair and of tragedy and violence that's going to come upon the people. It points to here in verse five One that ultimately the people who are attacking and assaulting Israel, they are striking the judge of Israel on the cheek. So we can go into the next the next section here next week, the judge of Israel will not bear to be struck on the cheek forever, he will have his vengeance he will have his day. And when his day comes, he will rise the daughters of Zion right. And that's you and me, right? We're the daughters of Zion. It feels weird to call us daughters. But we are the children of Israel, where the daughters of Zion were the sons of Jacob, right? We have an inheritance a glorious inheritance that the Son has obtained for us. But just as the son had to suffer and die to obtain that inheritance, we also will suffer and die with and for our Savior, in order to obtain that glorious inheritance.

Jesse Schwamb
Right. And that's what's so amazing, unique and that brings us back to the very tension of this whole perk up in that Jesus as as the God who As the one is truly God and truly man, the one who is victorious and conquering the Messiah himself. Notice that that victory comes only after the striking that there is a striking still. And so it's amazing that this is the way in which we get to kind of follow in his footsteps that we know in our own lives that will be pain. And as we talked about before, I think this also speaks to the fact that I believe God will allow us in his great mercy to fall into a million lesser sins to protect us from greater ones. Yeah. And he does that by way of small amounts of pain and striking, not just by way of discipline, but so that we might through that pain, be redeemed, he wants to redeem us, every time we send. Every time we come before him. Repentance is a little bit like this act of resurrection. Yeah. And so with absent that, we do not have the kind of triumph that he wants for us in our own lives. And so this is why because of all the things we just said in this conversation, that James can say so confidently Consider it pure joy. Whenever you face trials of many kinds, yeah. And so, I think we have here again, this wonderful continuity of the Scriptures that draw us back to looking at setting our faces by faith to perceive and see the one who is our elder brother who's gone the way up before us through this kind of immense pain, and in so has delivered us into the presence of God.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah, yeah, that's a good word to end on. I mean, you know, the the this series in the profits in Mike has just been so spiritually enriching, like, like, I feel like I've had a good meal after I spend time talking through what Micah has to say to us. Like, you know, I've commented before that sometimes it feels like, you get to the profits, especially the Minor Prophets, like the major prophets. It's a lot easier to see the prophecies of Christ and they're like, it's all over Isaiah. You get to Jeremiah and there's all this talk of the new covenant and you get to zekiel and you know, you're seeing echoes of Revelation, but then you get to the Minor Prophets. And you're kind of like, what is the deal with these guys like, what, what's even happening here, and just going through Micah and really spending the time to think about it and digest it and read what the saints of the past have said about it has been so spiritually beneficial for me. And I hope it's been spiritually beneficial for the people listening to the show, too. Because, you know, I've never really considered myself to be like a real great x eg, like, I don't, I don't really, I don't really consider myself to be anything super special. I mean, I'm competent, but I'm not anything super special. But that's the glory of the Scripture. Like you don't have to be like it just takes a little bit of time and energy and thinking through this stuff. And reading it in lot like reading the Bible with it with the Bible in one hand and the Bible in the other hand, and like cross referencing what's going on, like, it's really not that far out there. It's not that hard to see when you really are paying attention. And you're praying as you do it. So I would encourage people, you know, pick up, pick up the scriptures, read the scriptures, and just spend the time really soaking in what the Word says, and allow what the Word says to change and inform your life and transform you into the image of Christ.

Jesse Schwamb
To connect maybe the starting point and the ending point of this podcast, I would argue that at the end of time, when we stand before the Lord, our lack of biblical literacy is going to be proved against us not because we didn't have enough time, but because all our time was soaked up in things like the internet's Yeah, which takes a lot of time just away from us being able to do exactly what you said, Yeah, because we have the greatest teacher that resides in us that all of the incentive, so to speak, are compatible. If we ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate the word, He is faithful to do that. Yeah. And so we just need to do more of that. I need to do more of that. And I hope that these conversations that you and I are having as we're exploring this idea, Together, that many people also be inspired by God through His Holy Spirit to go into their own lives into their own prayer closets into their own families and their own worship time, and grab the Bibles and make that predominant, and make that the focus of what they're doing in their days.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah, well, Jesse, I'm excited to get to next week, especially since we're coming into the middle of winter, no special reason season. But we're going to come up on probably like one of the most significant most well known Messianic prophecies in all of the Old Testament next week. Oh, yeah. And it just happens to be December. We didn't plan this out. But God did. So we're going to talk about it. Now as we get messy. I'm pretty stoked. So join us next week. Bring your Bible with you. Check it out. We're super stoked to keep going through Micah.

Unknown Speaker
Let's do it.

Tony Arsenal
All right. Well, Jesse until then, what's what's so funny?

Jesse Schwamb
We just Did you feel it again? You've been a regular listener, there was that tension It was either gonna resolve or we're about to just blow this up and go right off the rails.

Tony Arsenal
Yeah, let's stay on the rails this week. So until next time, bye. We just did it again. There it was again. Yep, it is. It's like honor

Jesse Schwamb
everyone. Love the Brotherhood.