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Jesse and Tony are surprised by God's mercy as they continue their march through Micah.

Jesse Schwamb 0:02
Welcome to Episode 156 of the reformed brotherhood. I'm Jesse.

Tony Arsenal 0:16
And I'm Tony and we are proud members of the Society of reform podcaster.

Hey, brother,

Jesse Schwamb 0:31
Hey, brother, what is good with you? You

Tony Arsenal 0:35
know, everything, like life is just great. Like good food. Going over have dinner with mom and dad later, we're gonna have some black bean burgers. It's good. It's good stuff. Lord state was good. Church was good, got no complaints.

Jesse Schwamb 0:49
That is a grateful heart. And I really actually appreciate that testimony.

Tony Arsenal 0:52
What about you what's going on with you?

Jesse Schwamb 0:55
I will now I can't complain, even if I hadn't. But I mean, that's just a really a great way to start. I think out this cast. Because how many casts you listen to were usually the host start off with some type of complaining. Now we've done that too. But I love that we're basically saying, Listen, it's the Lord's day, we get to talk about the scriptures. We get to hang out together. There is nothing that is not good about this experience.

Tony Arsenal 1:17
Yeah, yeah. Can't complain. I mean, I could complain, but I'm not going to.

Jesse Schwamb 1:22
Yeah, except for the denials that we're about to nail down. But besides that, everything is fantastic. So yeah, speaking of which, do you want to go denial or you want to go affirmation? First,

Tony Arsenal 1:31
let's do affirmations first.

Jesse Schwamb 1:33
All right, you first go ahead.

Tony Arsenal 1:35
So I'm I've referenced this a couple times during this series, this Micah cast series. And I'm going to officially officially officially, officially affirm, maybe like an official affirmation isn't officially I don't know, I'm going to affirm the ESV expository commentary set, I am using this to help prep for my, they've got one volume that is essentially the Minor Prophets. But it's actually like Daniel through the end of the Old Testament, so it's like two major prophets, and then a bunch of minor prophets. And the nice thing about this commentary set, will probably actually talk a little bit about this during the show. But this commentary set is good, because it's really oriented towards kind of a busy pastor or a lay person who doesn't have a lot of time, or doesn't have a lot of mastery of the language. So they don't get bogged down in a lot of real technical details about the grammar and the language. But they do make comment on it, they kind of distill the insight from other scholars into something more digestible. So there's currently five volumes out, the whole series is going to be out eventually, they're pretty affordable each, each volume is only like 30, or $40, depending on the length. And like I said, they're very approachable. They're kind of from a self consciously reformed perspective, although I think the authors come from a pretty broad swath of reformed thinking, but they're very good. They're very approachable. And they, the puppies are obviously like, keyed to the GSB perk up. So if you're working through a text in something like this, or a Bible study, or you're preaching through attacks, it's really helpful because the kind of natural divisions in the text that you would use, if you were using most modern editions, they're already kind of divided up that way. So they're digestible, and they kind of match what you're already looking at.

Jesse Schwamb 3:35
And this is something we mentioned before, but this is a great time for to bear repeating. We've spoken at length about how it's just a joy to be able to study scriptures, and to have it expanded to you. So sometimes these types of volumes, especially like study Bibles, get kind of a bad rap, because they sound not as technical as other sources. And that is often true. However, it doesn't really negate their value, because of the point at the end of the day, is to have transformed mind leading to a transformed heart, right, then any resource that's accurate to that degree is going to be one that's helpful. So I agree with you, those are great resources. And I think they could belong in anybody's library, even the most stoic and experienced and technical theologian would benefit from that kind of resource. And at the same time, anybody who feels like I'm just overwhelmed by all the types of resources that might be out there. And maybe by theology in particular, this is also a great way to get exposed to scriptures with more depth.

Tony Arsenal 4:29
Yeah, yeah. And you know, each little section is broken up, they have the full text there. So it's nice, because you don't have to necessarily be juggling your Bible and the commentary, you've got the full escp text there. And then they have like a little outline of the section, when there's major divisions in the tax like you might have, you know, like Chapter Five, six, and seven of Matthew, for example, they probably will have like an introduction to those three chapters, since they kind of form even though there's multiple copies is kind of like a superpower break up. But they also have a response section. So there's a section where they talk about kind of the practical application of the text, you might even like tie this into our reform, preaching cast, right, sort of the, the improvement or the experiential part of the text. So I actually read on Sunday mornings, I read this not only as part of my prep for the show here, but also kind of devotional Lee, like I work through the tax kind of meditate on it. And then I have this wonderful resource that sort of unfolds it a little bit more, not on a technical level. So I don't get I don't get, like distracted by all the details, but really helps me and you know, what I found with this, this series on Micah, is there's a lot of ways to sort of get tossed around and turn around in the text if you're not having someone who can kind of help you through it. So it's just a really great resource. I think you're right, it makes it a good addition to anybody's library. And you're kind of on the ground floor. So like, I've started to begin to like build commentaries as part of my library, which I never had had. And it's really like intimidating to go look up a commentary set and realize you're going to have to spend like $1,000, actually, but now since this is a commentary set that's being published, like right now, you can kind of add it to your add each volume to the your library as they come out. And they're not, it's not going to be like 66 volumes set. So like they combined john and x, which is a little weird, I would have gone with Luke and Acts. But they're, they're trying to keep it in the biblical canonical order. So it's nice because you can actually affordably add this to your library as they come out.

Jesse Schwamb 6:36
You know, the more you and I talk, the more we have these conversations record them. The more I noticed that we say things that we just blow by that we don't make comments on that in total abstraction just sound ridiculous. I love that. At one point when you were speaking you use the words super perfect up.

Tony Arsenal 6:53
Yeah. Yeah, it was divided between super perk up and Mega Pro tip, or maybe a meta

Jesse Schwamb 6:59
per PO. So good. So many options. Like there's so many meetings just waiting to happen. We break up.

Tony Arsenal 7:06
I know. What about you? What are you affirming today?

Jesse Schwamb 7:09
If Well, speaking of our conversations, for those that have listened to us talk for any length of time, they'll know that oftentimes what turns to affirmations, unlike the resident person that's oftentimes recommending some type of music. And here's what's crazy over the last, I don't know, like six months or so I recommended actually four separate bands that have released new music. Those bands were wolves at the gates, my epic comrades and empty. And what's crazy is those bands are across different record labels. But and this blows me away. It's I think they're listening. And here's the reason why I think they're listening to us talk is, they've all decided to go on tour together. So yeah, it's kind of insane, actually, like this is a lot of great music happening all at once. So I would encourage you to go look this up, you can choose any one of those bands to search or to search, but you'll find they have tour dates all over the US. So I'm affirming this whole tour line of wolves at the gate, my epic comrades empty, I'm really actually blown away that they're all going to be together. I don't know, they're going to be super near by where I am. But I've actually thought about traveling several hours to go make this happen. That's how good it is. So if you have not listened to them yet, you could just knock them all out in one night and then feel super fulfilled with your life and have your entire countenance changed by getting your face rocked off. So go check that out. That's my affirmation.

Tony Arsenal 8:32
You know, you and I are gonna go to one of these concerts, and we're going to be out there and they'd be like, and are surprised, yes. Cydia light. And we're going to be like, they are listening to us. Like, we never would have thought to put Cydia light on our tour of this hardcore music. But since the reformed brotherhood recommended them to

Jesse Schwamb 8:53
Yes, exactly. Or better yet, like will be there. And they'll and they'll be they'll introduce the back we have a special guests, the number one healthcare pod.

Tony Arsenal 9:02
They're all going to be wearing our T shirts. That'd be hilarious. I might die. I might just straight up die. If that happened.

Jesse Schwamb 9:11
I would love maybe we just get them all to come on. Yeah, this is I was blown away by this. I was like, What are the chances? So yeah, Providence, pronto. So what about denials kick us off in that direction.

Tony Arsenal 9:22
So I have a little bit of a double entendre denial to make. So with with the fact in mind that I'm not a big fan of like, bag, or like alluded forms of swearing, this wasn't intentional. But after the fact, it's actually kind of funny. Okay, I'm denying f winter. So it's pronounced winter, but that doesn't come off on a microphone all that well. So I woke up yesterday morning, and it was 32 degrees, and it is barely October. And I know we try to avoid the reformed weather cast. But there are these times. And we're where we just have to talk about it. And it seems like winter is just a it's just on top of us for no reason. They got like four feet of snow in on the West Coast up in northern Oregon, like Washington area. And I'm just I'm not ready. I'm just not ready for it. It's it. I don't know what to do about it. So if you have any ability to stave off winter, then please do so.

Jesse Schwamb 10:30
Okay, here's the thing. I can't we can't go any further without me bringing this up. This has happened in previous podcast is something I wanted to ask you about. Can we just have like a moment of just real talk for a second?

Tony Arsenal 10:42
Let's do it. I mean, we're usually pretty fake. So that's

Jesse Schwamb 10:44
true. This is this is all an act. This act of making it seem like we don't know what we're doing next. That's all it's all plans. It's just a straight scripted reality.

Tony Arsenal 10:53
It's like reverse improv.

Jesse Schwamb 10:55
I'm going to need you to say this word again. VAGUE. Say that bag. Oh, man. Is that how it's like the Minnesota way to pronounce that?

Tony Arsenal 11:05
I just think that's the way to pronounce it. How do you say it?

Unknown Speaker 11:08
vague? bag.

Tony Arsenal 11:13
Bag and bag. Or like sag and sag?

Jesse Schwamb 11:19
Like you're still saying it? bag?

Tony Arsenal 11:23
bag? VAG like a bag.

Unknown Speaker 11:26
No, no, like long a vague, vague.

Tony Arsenal 11:29
Yes. Like no bag. It's bag.

Jesse Schwamb 11:32
No, it's it is definitely we were gonna have to get like we're in Webster on this is I saw I have heard the bag before. But I feel like it's been in the minority. And that's what I want to know if that was like when you came out of the womb and Minnesota if that's the way you said it.

Tony Arsenal 11:46
I mean, I guess maybe it's a I mean, how do you say the word like this? The the dough that you get in New York that you put cream cheese on? How do you say that word?

Jesse Schwamb 11:57
bagel?

Tony Arsenal 11:59
Yeah, say bad girl.

Jesse Schwamb 12:02
Good. How are you serious? No.

Tony Arsenal 12:04
Yes. I mean, yes, I'm serious here. Let's try

Jesse Schwamb 12:06
the word you say babble. Hold on. So so we if you were going to write a poem, you're saying you could rhyme Fraggle and babble?

Tony Arsenal 12:17
Yes, that's, that's what that's our weekly challenge. Please write a poem in which the word Fraggle and Babel are associated with. Okay, I

Jesse Schwamb 12:27
didn't mean to hijack your denial, because that's a really good one. I just heard the bag thing. And I was like, I need to get to the bottom of this right now. It could not go a second longer.

Tony Arsenal 12:39
Yeah, I mean, Google's with you. But

Jesse Schwamb 12:43
wait, can everybody hear that? I did

Tony Arsenal 12:45
it in the microphone. You didn't notice it? So it's like right in the middle of you talking?

Unknown Speaker 12:51
So

Jesse Schwamb 12:53
I'm just saying but here's the thing. You're not alone that I know. There's a group of people out there who say back there also probably new route to running and storming area. 51. But I know that there are people out there that are saying it that way.

Tony Arsenal 13:06
Hey, don't mess with Naruto. I only just learned what that was. Have you you've never seen an episode of Naruto. Have you?

Jesse Schwamb 13:13
Wait, is that like an actual is that a person where Yeah,

Tony Arsenal 13:16
he's an anime character.

Jesse Schwamb 13:17
And so the running that form of running with the arm is just like stretch back that is like his or her thing.

Tony Arsenal 13:23
It's like a really, it's like a really weird thing that happens. But in this show, they're all ninjas. And so all of them when they run they run. I think it's supposed to be like they're running so fast that their arms just get like dragged back. I think that's the like the point of it. It's kind of reminds me of the Barry Goldberg run a little bit. Yeah,

Jesse Schwamb 13:41
it definitely. So here's the great thing about this conversation. I feel like it's somewhat binary. So there are people that have just like, I've just offended, I've drawn all the ire of the people that are into enemy. And then the other half has been like, thank you for explaining what that is. Because we are on Twitter and Facebook and have no idea. So we'd like to hit everybody.

Tony Arsenal 14:01
You know, I'm wondering, I think veg is actually more more realistic. Because the word comes from the Latin term Vargas. So we're going with bag.

Jesse Schwamb 14:16
I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Unknown Speaker 14:17
Vargas.

Jesse Schwamb 14:20
That's, that's great. I must be wandering or uncertain. I love that we do this. But I really do feel bad that I've hijacked inadvertently, your denial, cuz that's a solid denial right there.

Tony Arsenal 14:31
It's okay. Are we on you now? I think we're on you now.

Jesse Schwamb 14:34
Yeah, we can love it. So let me transition as best we can. So this is actually kind of like a, it's a serious denial. I guess. I don't know if I brought this up before. But I want to throw this out there. Cuz it's something I've been thinking about, again, recently, and probably anybody who's a driver has seen this in their distance, or not so distant, I guess, past and that is, I have a good friends who I was connected with through my wife. She and her husband lost their 26 year old daughter to distracted driver. And so I'm really denying against distracted driving. And I think this is just very difficult because most people if you're around our age, you have your mobile device with you at all times, which means you have it with you in the vehicle while you're driving. And there's still just this this sense, this overwhelming sense that you're responsible person, your adult in hardcore, and you can look at the phone, you can do something you think you have to control the vehicle on what's going on. And the problem is, in this particular instance, where their daughter was killed, it's the same story over and over again, everybody always says they have control and everything's going to be fine. And it only takes one time. So it's kind of like a maze, like a little bit of PSA style. I'm just encouraging everybody to just stop it. Just put the phone down. Like when you're when you're in the vehicle, set everything up so that you can listen your podcast, your music or whatever. And that you can access that as best you can through like the, the innate abilities of the vehicle. But suicide like I know, we always say like there's nothing worth, you know, risking your life for a text. But seldom do we actually practice that because just so easy to be like I can just look at it real quick. Or I'm at a stoplight. But like, have you had this experience where like you you see somebody you can tell like the car is operating even like remotely close to like, its peak performance. And you look and of course like they're looking down or like you look at a stoplight, you just look around, and people have their heads down the clear looking at their their phones, like it's, it's just endemic. So we need to do something about it.

Tony Arsenal 16:28
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is super easy to to get distracted in general, when you're driving, even without, like a mobile device. And, you know, it's it's weird because Ashley and I last summer, we bought a new vehicle. And we actually opted to go with a lower level audio system. Because the system, the version of the audio system that was in the car we wanted, like was basically like an iPad, like strapped into your dashboard. And it was like built into the car. I like no joke. It was a display the size of an iPad, it had like transitions and video display. And I was like this is this is too much. I can't I can't even stay focused on the road properly. Just like trying to change the like the temperature of the vehicle is enough of a distraction. So yeah, I'm with you. I think we, you know, I think if somebody needs to invent a car, that like requires you to plug your phone into the car in order to start the vehicle, and then like or something that like disables your phone entirely, because I think as long as the phone is there and is accessible, people will look at it, people will use it, for sure. I mean,

Jesse Schwamb 17:44
there's lots of great apps, there's lots of great actually there are many of the car companies have tried this kind of thing. But it's hard because the consumers actually don't really want it. And that's what makes us crazy. We're talking about. I mean, this is like long gospel in a sense, in that we just don't want to do the thing that is really actually good for us. And it's funny how in life, I know you've come across this, and I'm sure most people have who are listening to us, where sometimes you get to choose the things that you end up being passionate about. And sometimes those things are kind of chosen for you. Yeah. And if you'd asked me a couple years ago, if I'd ever be outspoken about this, I'd be like, No, it's not that big a deal. But of course that all changes when you know somebody who's been impacted by this in a real way. Yeah, where something that seems like it's not a big deal is actually the biggest deal for this family. It's something that would says it could have been entirely avoided. Everybody on on both sides of this thing has been dramatically affected by it and their lives have been dramatically altered. And all over texts, honestly. So that's what's incredible. So just day to day, just put the phone down. It's better for you. It's I think it's actually better for your spiritual life. It's better. It's better for everything if we can put it down but especially in our cars, there's no need for it.

Tony Arsenal 18:53
Yeah, yeah, that's a good word.

Jesse Schwamb 18:55
Yeah, so sorry for taking us. I mean, after that whole bag controversy that gate. I'm sorry, I had to take us that gate.

Tony Arsenal 19:05
You mean vague, vague, eight. Vague eight. That sounds like some sort of strange like Long Island accent trying to say vacate. Yeah, vacate the premises say, somehow he became Canadian at the Yeah, yeah.

Jesse Schwamb 19:18
I was like, Where is that Canadian on Long Island? Yeah, I think I pretty much ruined that word for our cast. I'm sorry about that.

Tony Arsenal 19:26
It's all right. I'm sure it won't be the last time we ruin the word for our audience.

Jesse Schwamb 19:29
So what are we talking about? On this episode,

Tony Arsenal 19:31
we are going to talk about the book of mica. And we're going to look at the very end of chapter two and the very beginning of chapter three. So this is actually kind of two separate copies, but they're both pretty short. So we wanted to kind of get through them. It's like super perfect up like a sub perfect up. A super well, what was that?

Jesse Schwamb 19:56
What super perk up then?

Tony Arsenal 19:58
That's like a clump of puppies.

Jesse Schwamb 20:00
More than to them because we kind of got to hear.

Tony Arsenal 20:03
Yeah, but there has to be like, yeah, like a super breakup, he would be like multiple chapters with a breakup piece.

Jesse Schwamb 20:11
Is there a Marvel character?

Tony Arsenal 20:13
Yeah, super creepy. I feel like there should be he just divides texts up for you. He's like, Oh, yeah, just it's breaks here. This is where it is. Although in the in the world of Marvel Comics, there are some crazy, like people who have really useless worthless abilities. Like there's a character in the x men named gold balls. And literally all he does is shoot gold balls out of his hand. They're not like, they're not like super heavy. They don't have a lot of force. They're like, they just bounce off people and are annoying, but that's what he does. They call them gold players.

Jesse Schwamb 20:45
Yeah, you know, once again, before we get into this, I just want to comment and say there are times I just say things in our conversations, because, you know, I think it'll be interesting conversation. And especially when it comes to like the Marvel Universe because I know nothing about it. As we talked about, I'm learning I'm getting there people. But what I love is that I just out there like that should be Marvel character. And I love the real like, actually, there is some legitimacy to what you're saying right now.

Tony Arsenal 21:10
Speaking of Marvel, we did this is like this is like a breaking news update. Although I'm like doing

Jesse Schwamb 21:16
is I was gonna ask you about this. I know what you're going to Spider Man is

Tony Arsenal 21:18
back in the MC you back. He's back. So we'll see what happens. What What's going on? I for 1am very excited. So I think it'll be good.

Jesse Schwamb 21:30
I want to thank you for that. Because I was given that information at work. And I felt like I could participate in the conversation. Oh, yeah, I understood that. He was taken off the table and yeah, people were loving it. So thank you for preparing me to at least look mildly intelligent in front of my co workers. I'm

Tony Arsenal 21:48
I appreciate that. I'm pretty sure that it was all a publicity stunt. Because now even people like you who formerly had next to no interest in the MC you are now having articulate intelligent conversations about the upcoming Spider Man movies.

Jesse Schwamb 22:04
Yeah, cuz even if you're not, like intimately involved, like even I wanted to be like, how dare you, sir? Yeah, the Spider Man back. Who do you think you are? Like you can't? It's a public. It should be public domain at this point. You can take him away.

Tony Arsenal 22:16
Yeah, we want Spider Man. We want them now.

Jesse Schwamb 22:20
Exactly. So speaking of spider man. So Micah.

Tony Arsenal 22:26
Where are we at with smooth like gravel I'm gonna read. So we're going to start in verse 12. Here. And this is one of those areas. And we'll talk a little bit about it. But this is one of those areas where how you divide the text up between Perak appease, really can make a difference. So the ESV divides us up where we're section 12 here or verse 12. Here is the beginning of a new perk up. And there's good reasons for that. But in Calvin's commentary, and we'll talk about how Calvin understands this, I'm sure, in Calvin's commentary, he actually considered verse 12, and 13, to be associated with the former pro tip. And so we'll see when we talk about that how it flavors the tax and how it changes your your understanding. And Calvin makes the good point in his defense, which tells you which direction I'm going to go on his his interpretation. But in his defense, he makes the point that Micah didn't write chapter breaks or perk up, he breaks into his text, right? So So in some sense, it's an interpretive decision that rather than drive our interpretation, how we divide up the text should be driven by our interpretation. But that said, I'm going to start reading in verse 12. Here, and I'm going to read through verse 13. And then we'll, we'll talk about that. We'll go into the next one after a little bit. So verse 12, he says, I will surely assemble all of you, oh, Jacob, I will gather the remnant of Israel, I will set them together like a sheep like sheep in a fold, like a flock, and it's pasture, a noisy multitude of men. He opens the rich goes up before them, they break through and pass the gate going out by it. Their King passes on before them the Lord at their head. Take it away, Jesse.

Jesse Schwamb 24:17
Well, there's the last year that's not bad. That's the right thing. I want to say it's true. So what's what's your sorry, I thought you were just going to usher us into like this really insightfulness? I was I was waiting with bated breath. Yeah. So I actually I really liked this, this couple of verses. Because on this side of the cross, there's so much like beautiful foreshadowing, but before getting to that, like, Mike is concluding, like this first section of his prophecy with this brief little oracle of salvation. And part of this has to do with like you said, How do we divide up the text here, but there is from what I can tell, like there is a little bit of differing s like that particular event that's primarily in view here. So I mean, just hearing this in your voice, you get this wonderful sense that something is coming. It's talking about specific and it's bringing bringing people together. It's a remnant being gathered. And so there's some debate whether that's the foreshadowing of the eventual return from the exile, or if it's divine deliverance, extended to Jerusalem when Snap, snap rib overran much of the land in 71 BC. And I think there's a lot that probably tends toward the second interpretation. It also comports with some of what Isaiah himself prophesied. But either way, what we get is this deliverance that's emphasizing that God's chosen remnant is going to anticipate this greater Triumph of the Messiah, this great Shepherd King. So here's one of these wonderful texts in Scripture, where there's so much for us to chew on and appreciate because we have this telescoping in a way, but it's just wonderful on the side of the cross, kind of look back on this and see that there is this role for the shepherd king that in other words, like all these, all these little lowercase messiahs that Israel has experienced, even here, they're waiting for one to deliver them out of this temporal existence, which is going to be absolutely horrific for them. But even beyond that, those lowercase messiahs have always been inadequate. They've always been repentant to some degree, and they're waiting for that true Messiah. And here we have that kind of bubbling up to the surface, even in what Mike is saying, to his own people in this particular time.

Tony Arsenal 26:19
Yeah, I think that's really good. And before we go much further, I want to talk a little bit about Calvin's view and and why, why I think he gets there and and where I think he goes wrong. So Calvin is looking at this text, and he more or less clumps this text with the previous as an extension of the judgment Oracle, that we read through chapter two. And so what what's interesting about this is, as you read Calvin, you actually get the sense that almost like he, he sort of wants to interpret it the way that you're interpreting it, he sort of wants to go there. But he feels compelled because of how much of an interruption of things it is to retain this as part of the judgment Oracle. So so what I explained this to someone earlier, it just struck me is God's mercy is so surprising that in the midst of this judgment, Oracle, it's almost believe unbelievable that it's there. And so Calvin interprets this basically to say, like, God is saying is still it's still God speaking. But now he's saying, I will assemble all of you, oh, Jacob, I will gather the remnant of Israel. And instead of using the word remnant here to refer to the sort of the saved elect, or the the Faithful Remnant, which is, as far as I know, the only way that scripture uses this concept, besides if it's using it here this way, he's talking about basically like, the the stragglers that are left over after the direction, destruction of Jerusalem. And so those people in Calvin's v are going to be gathered together in a pen as it were. And that's going to be like a multitude of sheep who are waiting for the slaughter. And so he has some good reasons for this, I don't know that we need to get into the rest of it. But he ties it in later to the next perk up here, we're going to get into, we talked about the rulers of Jerusalem, basically devouring their people like livestock. And so he's seeing the text being a much more of a coherent flow here. And like I said, it's almost like he wants to understand this way. He totally acknowledges that even in his day, almost everyone that was interpreting on this interpreted this as sort of a stark statement of salvation in the midst of judgment. But he really feels like you have to keep it, you have to keep the flow of this text. But I think that you and I would be in agreement with the vast majority of commentators, even reformed commentators, Calvin is a weird exception to this, that this really does represent almost like this spontaneous, almost like a vomiting of mercy that happens in attacks where God, you'll notice the shift from the Prophet speaking about God, to all the sudden now it is God speaking, right, that first person shift, it's not Micah saying he will assemble the people, it's God's saying that he will assemble the people. And so there's almost this sense that, you know, Mike is delivering this Oracle, he's delivering this prophecy that God has given him. And then it's almost like through the mouth of the Prophet, God can't contain himself anymore. And so he shouts out in the midst of this judgment, that there will be a remnant. So that's the first reason I would say that we should see this, we should legitimately see this as an interruption in the text. Because grammatically and linguistically It absolutely is. It's a totally different tone, and tenor and grammatical structure than the surrounding a piece. And then there's this concept of the remnant. And this concept, as far as I can tell, this word group of remnant is used nowhere else in the Bible, except to refer to somehow the faithful that God has preserved. Right. So Joseph is set forward into Egypt, ahead of his brothers and ahead of his father, to preserve a remnant of the people. You know, Isaiah uses this term to talk about the remnant. That's the other thing is Mike and Isaiah are prophesied and same people. There's a lot of linguistic parallels and Isaiah definitely uses this term to refer to the believing few who remain in Israel. And Elijah is told, when he says, I'm the only one left, God says, Well, no, I held back a remnant a remnant for myself of prophets who are faithful to me. So throughout Scripture, this concept of remnant is consistently applied to the faithful believing leftover few after God has kind of winnowed out the chaff and the apostates. And then this concept of the sheepfold, the sheepfold is another one of those concepts throughout the scripture that is almost always used positively. I can't think off the top of my head, right anywhere that the concept of sheep is applied negatively to anyone. So it does seem strange to me, that all the sudden we would have this spontaneous statement of hope in the midst of it, but liquid Stickley theologically, you know, biblical theology across the board. That's where the text brings you. So it's, it's understandable to me why Calvin kind of sees this as a weird like discordant note in the text. But it that's what it is. And that's the beauty of it is that even in the midst of all this judgment, prophecy and Oracle, God still sees fit to sort of insert his his message of hope in the midst of all of that,

Jesse Schwamb 31:28
right? There's something that Calvin gets, I think that's right, though, he's, he's kind of pressing on a nerve that I think we sometimes easily forget about. And that is, what makes the Christian religion unlike any other is that there is no compromise between mercy and justice. So if you look at any other religious worldview, if you look at any other behavior, in our world, one of those to the justice, the mercy has to give at the expense of the other so you can exercise a great about a mercy but always come at the expense of justice. And here it's almost like recalibrate is I think, in his commentary pointing us towards is that even if there is mercy embedded here, and I think there is some mercy, but it here, it's coming through God's judgment, which we see exercise on the cross. So there's always this constant harmony and unity such that God never over extends his character, he never comes to place recover Mises character, and yet at the same time, is able to grant the kind of mercy that we so desperately longed for, and really need for survival, but only because the punishment itself has actually been met it out. And then boy, yeah, yeah. And so I think there's something embedded in this passage where he's, he's clinging to that as well, the sense that God is saying there, there's real judgment coming. And at the same time, what's interesting is, there is this break is like, really crazy, honestly, because in other places in the Scripture, we hear of God like breaking through his enemy. So like, for instance, I just pulled up like Second Samuel 520, which is kind of reminiscent of this language, and that reads, and David came to Bell, Perez, and David defeated them. And he said, The Lord has broken through my enemies before me like a breaking flood. But in verse 13, that thought is like somewhat different, because the breaker here, which we might be able to say is, the Messiah, breaks through the prison gate and leads his people out free. So there's a different emphasis altogether, but I think they coalesce in this idea that God brings his mercy through and by way of his judgment. Yeah. And that's something that I think common draws out really well.

Tony Arsenal 33:30
Yeah. And the other thing, you know, we talked about kind of the immediate event or the immediate fulfillment, right? So we haven't done a lot of sort of like general talk about how proper prophetic books work. But this is a good example of the concept of prophetic telescoping. Right. So we have, we have a prophecy of some sort. And in most cases, there's an immediate fulfillment. And then there's a typical logical fulfillment in Christ, right. And so Calvin, unfortunately, loses that in his intro reputation. But Matthew Henry actually picks up really strongly and I think I actually think Henry is a stronger commentator on this than Calvin is. But we have this concept where it's the breaker, right, this phrase, he who opens the breach goes through. And then the next, the next line here is they break through and pass the gate. Well, those are the same Hebrew words. So it's really more like the breaking one goes up, they break through and pass the gate. And so there's this, there's this immediate fulfillment that we see where most likely there's some sort of the people of Israel are sort of trapped in, in the city. And, and so they have to breach their own siege in order to get out. And we do see that the king does that. And it doesn't go well for him. But we see in Christ that he breaches the grave, he breaches the tomb. And then because he breaks the tomb, we're free to break free of it as well. So there's, there's this linguistic parallel that we have to recognize, and Krista logically, that has a lot to say about who we are in relation to Christ, right, Christ goes before us, not as some radically distinct, different kind of person, right, he is a different kind of person. But that solidarity that he shares with us as well is really important. And so Christ, Christ doesn't do one thing so that we can do another thing, he does one thing so that we can follow in his path and do that same thing. So we are able to overcome death, because Christ overcame death for us. And so we follow in his trail that he blazes for us. And, and the book of Hebrews picks up on that, that Christ is the one who goes before he's the Trailblazer who goes before us. And so the same kind of linguistic parallels happening here. And you know, that some would actually say that this language of passing the gate or breaking the gates, that actually has to do with part of the reason why Christ talks about how the gates of hell will not stand against this church. So if we, if we don't understand this as a statement, hope and future, the future coming Messiah as the the typical logical fulfillment of this, then we really lose a lot of that strong, biblical theological typology that I think is really present in the text.

Jesse Schwamb 36:12
And there's so much here that's reminiscent of the Old Testament isn't there. I mean, we have this sense, of course, when the Israelites are being led in the desert, that pillar of fire that cloud. And so here, we have this language that returns us this kind of ideology that God does go before us, he's also behind us. He's protecting us, he's having us and he's moving us in a direction that is for his good and for, you know, our benefits. And I think, you know, we don't want to lose sight of that, because I think one of the best things we can do we read passages like this, in the Old Testament is asked the question, what does this say about the character of God? And this beautiful language of the breaker is something that is just so eternally contemporary, because everybody I know, and myself included, there's always something we say like, what does it mean to be free to somebody? If you ask them? What does it mean for you to freedom, I would say 90% of the time, that person is going to start listing things that they would like to be free from, not things they necessarily like to be free to do, right. And so when we get this idea of God as the breaker, he is the chain breaker, he's the one who makes the way he is the one who is able to in through the power of the Holy Spirit, mortify sin and bring us into higher levels of sanctification, not perfection, but integrator degrees of obedience, and yielding. But this is real power for transformation in lives, I just love to hear stories, some of which I've heard, actually, really recently, of people that have not just been in bad situations. But like, for instance, I heard a story amazing testimony very recently, from a gentleman who was absolutely completely addicted to all kinds of horrible drugs, and was ready to take his own life, because he recognized and his own self awareness, even in the midst of that kind of addiction, that he couldn't get the help he needed, he had gone through actually several medical treatments, be freed from this, and realize he just could not get the help, there was no power. So he thought that would able to be released him from the kind of bondage that he was in. And so out of actually frustration, almost kicking and screaming, went to the church, and got freedom from that and hear testimonies like that, sometimes it's quick to be skeptical and say, like, Well, here's a person that was just well intentioned, and because the right set of circumstances, you know, fine, they were released from something that was fairly addictive. But when you hear that kind of testimony where somebody was just at their wit's end, and recognize that they despaired of life itself, there were they didn't think there was anything that could help them. And it is God himself, who saves them. That's like the kind of person that's going to live the rest of their life just straight on interest, because they know where they've been. But the fact the matter is, that's all of our story. And so I know, I get bogged down bogged down in my own life, a feeling like they're bad habits I have their sinful habits that I fall into, I just think, you know, the best I can hope for is forgiveness day to day and and that itself is a great gift. But I think what we get from Micah is this sense of reminder that there is power, that God is power that he comes into your life with his full authority, if we would yield and submit to Him in a real way, not Yes, kind of where we just play, give him platitudes for what he's done, but that were actually concerned with their own holiness. We'd like whole episode, I think, yeah, we talked about in some ways, the Christian life is try harder. What we mean by that is not try harder to earn your salvation, because that's a treadmill you'll never get off of, that's already been given to you. But it's the try harder to live a life worthy of the calling to which you've been called, by the power of the Holy Spirit. And I pick up so much of that here in just these couple of verses.

Tony Arsenal 39:43
Yeah, yeah. And then he closes out here, my closest, this little section here, and he says, their king passes on before them, the Lord at their head. So Calvin has to interpret this, he interprets this as saying, their king passes on before the meaning of the king of Israel, wherever, wherever, whatever this refers to whether it's leaving Jerusalem going into exile coming out of exile, this is referring for him to the the physical, temporal, King of Israel. And then when it says, The Lord is at their head, it's God's standing at their head. As an executioner right in judgment, he's standing over their head ready to strike. And, you know, I love Calvin all due respect to him. And like I said, there's there's decent reasons why he's reading it this way. But that just doesn't make any sense to me. Like it doesn't really seem to fit with what we understand about the prophets. And it makes Micah to say something very different than Isaiah in reflecting on the same thing. And so here's a hint, here's what Matthew Henry says, and I think it's so good. He says, Christ is the church's king, he is Jehovah. He heads them, passes before them, brings them out of the land of their captivity, brings them into the land of their rest. He is the breaker that broke through them that rent the veil and open the kingdom of heaven been to all believers. And I think, you know, we definitely do have the immediate fulfillment, whatever that is, I'm with you. I think it probably is referring to the captives coming out of out of exile in the time of Nehemiah, it could refer to some of the the Judah dwellers who fled from Judah to Egypt and set up kind of a thriving Jewish colony there for a while. But I think it probably is a return from the exile. But in the fulfillment of this in Christ, the tipa, logical fulfillment, we have Christ as the head of the people. And it's Christ, as Jehovah as the Lord as Yahweh himself, who is at their head, which just picks up beautifully with all of Paul's language, about Christ being the head of the body, the head of the church, all of that language settles nicely into this prophetic paradigm. And some commentators that I read actually say, this is probably a passage that Paul had in mind, when he talks about growing up into the full mature god of Christ, who is their head, is that not only as Christ as a glorified human, the head of the church, but he is the head of the church as the source and origin of the church God Himself.

Jesse Schwamb 42:12
Yeah, that's heavy. I mean, I think that suits suits with like the what Mike is saying, Here, there is that consistent thread throughout Scripture. I mean, again, either way you interpret this, I think what we get out of it is our God is the breaker. I mean, he's the one that says like sin and shame and addiction and bondage, if you want some come and get some this the power, that is he brings into the transformed and the regenerated heart. And it again, it's not because of it's not based on some kind of meritorious work, but it's just because God is good and gracious, like, and this was crazy, like, this is what makes grace amazing. Yeah, it would be enough for God just to absorb sin. It's something altogether different for him, to give us, His Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit to dwell among us such that we must live lives of holiness, and obedience. And that's what the breaker is. So it's, it's part of it, I think, is walking around with your head held high, knowing that God goes with you that he is the one before you. But in a very real sense, he is with you by the power of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. So I can't say this any other way like that. That just is an amazing reality to me, one that I can't even fully articulate. Yeah. And I think that the beauty of the script is, of course, is its timeliness and being able to address a particular situation. But for those of us now, as we're reading and studying it, to look at it and be like, man, isn't God amazing, like what he is demonstrating here through his people, by way of his reference to Christ, the Messiah, the one who like you said earlier is the first fruits of the resurrection is our brother goes ahead of us. Like, we just need to walk in that kind of Power and Light like we there's nothing we can do about that. We just need to receive it, and walk forward in it with a different sense of confidence, not again, in the fact that we've been chosen, but that God has been this kind of gracious toward his children.

Tony Arsenal 44:02
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably a good way to sort of wrap up that little section. So we can move on here to chapter three. And I'm going to read verses one through four. It reads, and I said, Here you heads of Jacob and rulers of the house of Israel, is it not for you to know justice, you who hate good and love the evil, who tear the skin off from my people and eat the flesh from their bones? who eat the flesh of my people and flay their skin off of them, and break their bones in pieces and chop them up like meat in a pot like flesh in a cauldron? Then they will cry to the Lord, but he will not answer them, he will hide his face from them at that time, because they have made their deeds evil. So this, this section, jumps right back into judgment. So whether Calvin was right, and it was one long stream of judgment, or whether the majority commentators, commentators are writing there's this interruption of hope and mercy in the middle there. This jumps back in and one of the things that I think is interesting here, the the text makes it really clear, who is talking now. So we've talked about how some other parts of the text, it's a little bit ambiguous when there's the false prophets, whether it's God, whether it's Mike, whether it's the people of Israel, but here the the author is, or the speaker as identified as Micah. And so Micah, you know, Mike, a minister for over 40 years. So it's not as though this was all he ever said. So what we probably have in the book of Micah, is sort of a collection of greatest hits of prophecies or Oracle's that by the Holy Spirit, Micah assembled and collected together. And so he's going here now to a statement that he made to the heads of the house of Jacob, the people of Judah. And he says, Listen, are here heads of Jacob, the rulers of the house of Israel? And we're right back to that theme that we saw in chapter two, where the the elites the powerful of Judah, particularly and Israel, that the northern kingdom by extension, they are being punished and and indicted for not properly caring for the poor in their midst and for oppressing and taking advantage of those who could be pressed to the advantage.

Jesse Schwamb 46:18
Yeah, finally, after all, this time, we get to have cannibalism cast. Yeah. I mean, what's, what's crazy about this is it's one thing of course to, he's already spoken at great length about the judgment that God is going to bring on his people, which just absolutely shocking about this. And really grotesque is the degree to which he describes this and how he likens it to cannibalism. It's a really, yeah, it's really shocking. I think, in my opinion, even I think for our ears to hear there's a view is something about this, where it's not just another talks about like pulling their, their flesh and eating it, but putting it in making a stew from it, literally. Yeah, it's almost like relishing what they're doing. And well, I'm not advocating that this this perspective that I have is part of even like a plenary interpretation of this. But I'm reading this this week, here's something that was a really kind of my mind was drawn to is this. And again, I'm not saying this is what Mike is saying in this passage, but it's merely what it reminds me of, there's a strange juxtaposition. Here you have these people who are supposed to be the ones shepherding supposed to be the ones that leading supposed to the ones bringing the theological acumen and accuracy to bear in the lives of the people and then living that out in obedience to the Lord. But they're being indicted further impotence, for their corruption, for the really not just poor leadership, but they're evil leadership taking advantage. And Micah says, here's what that's like. It's like you're eating them, eating them alive, and you're enjoying it. You're relishing it, you're spicing it up, you're making it, you're cooking it to such a degree that you want to make it delicious and let it marinate and all this evil. And then we have in this New Testament, another example that people often those who are kind of unfamiliar with the Christian faith labels cannibalism, and you have this idea of the Lord's Supper, there's a different kind of eating of the flesh in this where we are given life, and restored. It's the exact opposite. And while that's certainly not what Mike is talking about here, I just found that juxtaposition. really fascinating, if that makes sense.

Tony Arsenal 48:14
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's the difference between those who are tasked with protecting and ruling over a people feeding off of them. And Christ who rightfully rules over his people, feeding them hit with his very self exact so instead of this selfish, taking and devouring that which is entrusted to you, it's a giving of yourself to preserve and protect and nourish that which has been entrusted to you. It's, it's precisely the opposite of what Mike is indicting here. And, you know, he's, he's talking specifically to the the rulers who are tasked with understanding and enforcing justice, right? So in the very beginning of the establishment of kind of the judiciary of Israel, right, we go back into the Torah, when Moses appoints the 70 elders to help him rule this, this mob of people that need have a need for judgment, they have a need for courts. And one of the first things that that God says, is to, to not take a bribe, and to judge impartially in the Hebrew, the idiom they use is literally without respect to faces. And so the idea is, these kings and judges and rulers of Israel and Judah, were supposed to be issuing justice, solely based on the facts of the incident or the thing in hand, as though they couldn't even see who the plaintiffs were. That's the picture that we're being given. And instead, what's happening is precisely the opposite, because of the fact that these people are poor, and weak and liable to be oppressed. The ruler, press that advantage, and they devour them as though they were eating them. And, and, you know, I don't I don't think that this is directly a prophecy of the fact that cannibalism was going to happen in Jerusalem under the siege, but it did. And so you have to imagine that the people you know, it, the, the prophets have this weird relationship with Israel, where, you know, obviously, this book was revered by them, in that it was recorded, it was considered scripture, it was treated as holy. It was preserved and protected and transmitted throughout the ages. Some of that head was happening during the siege of Israel, right, we have good evidence that these scrolls that the Torah, Torah scrolls and the scrolls of the prophets were preserved in special ways during the during the siege and the fall of Jerusalem. And the fact of the matter is, in the midst of people literally eating dead corpses in their midst, I don't remember where it is. But there's a there's a scene in the scriptures where one of the kings is, is basically confronted with the fact that they have to do this, right in the midst of all of that people are reading this prophecy, which is saying that the reason that you're being forced to do all of these terrible things, this judgment has come upon you physically, you're being driven to cannibalism, cannibalism, because spiritually, you already started the cannibalism decades ago. So the physical outflow of this judgment is a is a directed logical consequence of the nature of their spiritual sin in the history past, and that that's the way it happens. So often, I think, is that we, you know, not getting into like the weird, charismatic, General generational curses thing. But so often we commit some sort of sin, spiritual sin in our hearts, we have some attitude or perspective that's wrong. And when that finally bubbles up and has some sort of temporal consequence for us, the crime, the punishment fits the crime, right. So whatever the consequences of our sin is, if we're prideful and arrogant, and that is the the spiritual nature of our sin. Almost all the time, you know, I don't want to just be I don't want this just to be the slam on Julian show, and sometimes it becomes that, but Julian's pride and his lust, both sexual and his lust for power, and celebrity, when that finally all blew up in his face, what did he lose? He lost his wife. He lost his pulpit, he became a laughingstock. And even now, as he started to try to return himself into ministry, for the most part, reformed people and Christians in general, look at him and go, what a joke. What a total joke, why would I listen to anything he has to say, and and so that the consequences of his sin, the temporal physical consequences of sin, match the spiritual character that that bursts them, right? temptation, when fully conceived gives birth to sin and sin, when its embrace gives birth to death, and that death takes the form of the sin in which he was conceived. And that's just a good spiritual principle that we see. And not like we should ever avoid sin strictly to avoid consequences. But thinking about that for a second is going to help you understand why you should avoid the consequences, in part, right? If you don't want to have a big embarrassing fall, then learn to not be prideful. Learn to not be arrogant, if you don't want to have your family destroyed by by adultery and pornography, that learn to tamp down the sin of lust in your heart before it ever becomes anything else. It's just a good principle that we can draw.

Jesse Schwamb 53:34
Yeah, there's something here that I think we need to really do better at trying to bring and apprehend into our normal lives. Because the language here this strong language of comparison to cannibalism. And like you said, basically, we've spoken previously about how Micah compared the condition of the people spiritually speaking to a disease, the problem I see in our own lives is that the spiritual state that's spiritual and is ephemeral. It's enigmatic. It's hidden. It's not, it's unseen. And so when they use these examples like Micah does, of cannibalism, I think what he's trying to do best is to say, you don't understand just because you can't see your sin, let me give you something that you can see that you can comprehend that you think is absolutely grotesque. And in this case, he uses cannibalism in other places, he talks about disease, but the reality is what he's saying is and I think Christians who have understood this best know that the spiritual state, the natural man, filled with sin, is ugly and destructive and hollow. And those who understand that best who can actually see that kind of ugliness who who under understand or can actually feel all those odious parts. They're the ones I think, take this the most seriously, and I want to grow in that area. Because when we read this stuff, we can easily think Yeah, well, you know, of course, corruption is horrible. These guys taken advantage of everybody else. You know, they desert go get him go get him God. And the fact the matter is, we're no better off really, that our sin is just as egregious and that that we are inside without God is just as ugly that we would eat our brothers and sisters figuratively and literally, yeah, if God in His efficacious Gracie Gracie, Gracie graciousness. That's grace and mercy. Gracie is grace and mercy. If he did not, in some sense, withhold us even that come just common grace. So I'm all in with what you're saying. You're right. You're absolutely right. I mean, this is it's a big deal. And it's why I think it's worth studying these kind of texts continually because it draws our minds back to where they ought to be. And that is one that we need this breaker we is when they come through and like break bust out the what like Kool Aid man sound like oh, yeah, come on. It's this way Get out. Yeah. And also the one that's willing, as we, as we suffering as we fall continually, that can pick us up and in His grace, say, you know, you're forgiven child, you know, come and be will go with sin no more.

Tony Arsenal 56:01
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, one of the things that struck me, I've mentioned it several times now, over the last three years now that we've been podcasting is, God has really sort of given me a new desire to read the scriptures in their entirety. So ever since I became a Christian, I've always been a student of the Scripture, like I've always wanted to study and digest and understand the Scripture. But I did so kind of an isolated text. And over the last, really, the last three years since we've been doing this podcast, I've had this more pressing desire to read the whole Bible every year. And one of the things that I'm learning through this study of Micah, and as I studied some of the other minor prophets, understanding the book of the books of First and Second Samuel first, second, Kings First and Second Chronicles, is really, really important if you want to understand the prophets. And so maybe one of the things that I'll leave to kind of close this with here is just an encouragement for our listeners, to not not just skip over, or, or gloss over or read through quickly, the historical sections of the Old Testament, like, you know, like, we joke about how like, all right, Genesis moves pretty fast, you know, it's all narrative, it's pretty quick, except for a couple quick genealogies. And then, you know, first 20 chapters of Exodus more or less, it's pretty quick. And then it's like you slam into the law. And you just like, All right, I'm just going to skip to Joshua. And then like, you read like the first five chapters of Josh, when you're like, All right, we're back to genealogies and numbers and censuses. And then you you slam for two judges, you miss a lot when you read through, and you skip over those portions, even things like recognizing a particular name and a text. And being able to associate that with where it came from, and the rest of the tax and chase it down, is really, really helpful. So I would encourage people, you know, a good year annual Bible plan is great, I'm actually trying something for 2020, I got started a little bit early, because I wanted to sort of spread it out a little bit more. But I'm actually reading through and I've broken the text up into four, kind of starting points. And I'm reading two or three chapters of each starting point each day. And by the time I finished with 2020, I've read the entire Bible four times over. And so it's, you know, it's like, five minutes per section. So it's 20 to 30 minutes a day, to read the entire Bible four times next year, it's really not that much of a time commitment in the grand scheme of things. But I'm already feeling like I'm, I'm having a better grip on the text. And, and like I'm actually using my time productively by investing and reading the Scripture. So I would encourage you, you know, pick up a good reading plan. I'm not a huge fan of chronological reading plans, but I did one last year that really helped me understand the profits, particularly pick up a good reading plan and start working through now if, if you feel like the Bible in a year is too much get started. Now, the Bible in 14 months is easier and easier task to tackle then the Bible in 12, or do it over three years, or do it over 10 years, you know, whatever it is a specific goal to make it through the entire Bible, in a defined period of time is an admirable goal, the goal that will I can promise you, if if you're a Christian and you're generated by the Holy Spirit, spending time in the Holy Scripture is one of the single most profitable things you can do spiritually for your life. It just is.

Jesse Schwamb 59:32
Totally agree. In fact, that's a really great challenge to lay down because I would say try it and see if it doesn't mess up your life.

Tony Arsenal 59:38
Just try it. Oh, yeah, for sure. It really

Jesse Schwamb 59:40
just spend consistent time in the scriptures a little bit every day and then meditating, praying through that. Just just see what it does. Like you should want to do that it just to see one if we're true to our word on that into what will happen. Yeah. So today, and actually one things I want to throw out for people that are been tracking with us, or even this is your first time listening to this cast, or this whole series on Micah is get in on this, again, due to read with us. But I would love and I'm sure you would, too, to have people leave us a voicemail just saying like what God has been teaching them through Micah, as we've talked either as they've been reading it as they heard Arsenal, a little voices, speaking some commentary into that. And you can leave a voicemail at 607-444-2767.

Tony Arsenal 1:00:28
Yeah, yeah, we would love to hear it. We would love to get some I mean, I don't know how much we can address them on the show. Kind of ad hoc like we do, sometimes a question cast. But we would love especially as we get closer to the end of this mica cast, we're probably a little under halfway through, we're going to be going well into the new year. I would love it if we could have some questions specifically about Micah, whether their technical questions about you know, particular verses or passages, or whether there are questions about application, I would love to do a question casts. When we get towards the end of this that's specifically about the questions that have come up and the how we apply Micah. So if you have questions, give us a call, leave us a voicemail. And I would really challenge you, you know, my reading plan I'm doing is I'm starting one one starting point is Genesis, one starting point is Isaiah, one starting point is Matthew and one starting point is Romans. So start now read two to three chapters every day, by the time you get done with 2020, you'll have gone through the whole thing four times. And honestly, that's probably twice or three times as many, maybe not three times, that's probably twice as many times as a lot of people have ever read through the whole Bible in their entire life. So it really is I mean, it really pays spiritual dividends. And, you know, it's it's one of those things that along with memorize the Westminster shorter catechism on the 10 commandments, starting like questions 60 ish, or 50 ish, that will mess you up too. Because as you memorize the perspective of what the lion means, you'll start to see all throughout the scripture how the 10 commandments are repeated. So for example, when I read here, Hero heads of Jacob and rulers of the house of Israel, is it not for you to know, justice? What I hear is the responsibility of superiors to inferiors is to enforce justice, and to to eat to apply discipline in a just and merciful way. Right, that's straight out of the Westminster larger Catechism of the responsibility of superiors to inferiors or from leaders to followers or however you want to phrase it. Well, right there. verse three, instead of some a theory of violation that the rulers have have committed. There's a straightforward violation of the fifth commandment, which we think about is Honor your father and mother, but it really is about all relationships of authority and equality in in creation, is encapsulated in that so this, this more in depth focus on the scriptures as a whole and then taking time to understand God's law, especially through like the Westminster show catechism, or the height of our catechism, something like that really will just it just change your life like it really messes you up in like the best possible way. Yeah, maybe not in a great way, but in a good way, probably

Jesse Schwamb 1:03:13
know, in a way that obviously is for God's glory. And for our good ultimately, I love because I love that I love your excitement. That's why I love to get more voices in on this, again, call it leave us a question. Or In addition, I would say as well share a little bit about what God is teaching you and maybe some of your testimony in that you have to be Bry, of course, because the voicemail will cut you off, there is judgment in our voicemail, it just cuts you off after a certain period of time. So you have to be brief. But it would be great for us and others to just kind of hear what God is doing across his family in all different parts that will all those are listening and part of the reform brotherhood, we would love for you to be a part of that journey and to express that by way of leaving a voicemail. So one more time for those in the back. The number is 607-444-2768.

Tony Arsenal 1:04:01
Well, Jesse, I think that this may be has been the definitive Micah cast on Micah chapter two, verses 12 through three, four. So would you agree with that you use that I'm just gonna steal it from you. And you can't ask me. You

Jesse Schwamb 1:04:16
know, I'm always saying like, basically, whatever. Whenever you and I get together whatever topic we're talking about, we that is the definitive resource going forward into the world. It's true, and it's never vague

Tony Arsenal 1:04:25
about what we're talking about. All right, Jesse. This has been a great show. I think I'm really excited to continue this series on my guides just keep on me to digging into what God has for us. So until next time, honor everyone. Love the Brotherhood.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai